Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi Gorgeous. This is episode number 331. And the wonderful Holly Chantal is back on the show today.

Holly Chantal [0:09]
Hi, this is Holly Chantal and you’re listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:15]
I’m so excited to have another conversation with Holly Chantal. Last time we talked about her story From 0 to 6-figures In Only 18 Months. And today we’re going to go deeper into rejection into The Best Way To Handle Indecision In A Sales Call. For over a decade, Holly Chantal has been helping visionary service professionals to bring their message offers and marketing into alignment with their next stage of growth. Her specialty is working with established coaches and private practitioners who have reached a revenue ceiling and want to create higher ticket offers and more scalable business models. So if you’re looking for someone that can quickly grasp your vision, and what you do, and all of its complexity, and help you to move forward in the best way, then Holly is the woman you want to call.

Christine Schlonski [1:16]
And in case we have not met yet, I’m Christine Schlonski, the host of Heart Sells! Podcast where I talk with inspirational, successful heart-centered entrepreneurs and business leaders about how they became so wildly successful and the challenges they have to overcome. Some of my amazing past guests include the wonderful Bob Burg, co-author of the “Go-Giver Series” and author of “Endless Referrals”, which are books I highly recommend for you to check out they will help you on your sales journey, as well as the wonderful Suzy Carder, who has worked a long time with Lisa Nichols and John Assaraf, and has just put out a new book “Power Your Profits”, or Ian Altman talking about “Same Side Selling” on his wonderful podcast show. He’s also named one of the Top 30 Gurus on Sales globally. This episode is brought to you by Heart Sells! Academy. That’s the place to be if you have a wonderful gift. But you do not like sales. If you feel like sales are in your way of delivering your gift, sales just never feel good. Then you want to check us out, have a Sales Assessment Call so we can guide you on your next best step that you can take to sell with ease, grace, confidence while being authentic, and also making more impact and revenue. So let’s dive into this wonderful episode with Holly Chantal. And let’s see what she says is The Best Way To Handle Indecision In A Sales Call. Enjoy. Well, welcome to Heart Sells! Podcast Holly, I’m so happy that you are back on the show today.

Holly Chantal [3:01]
Oh, I’m so glad to see you again. This is great.

Christine Schlonski [3:03]
Yeah, we had so much fun. I loved how you shared in the last episode, how you went From 0 to 6-figures In Only 18 Months. And we kind of left off with, you know, the peace of rejection of that fear of reaching out. You’re doing cold outreach at the moment, I have done thousands of cold calls and to overcome that fear, again and again, and again, is something that’s not easy. But before we dive in, I just want to let people know a little bit of who you are and what you have accomplished. And you are actually helping visionary service professionals to bring their message offers and marketing into alignment with their next stage of growth, which I love the word alignment, it’s so important that you are creating a business you love. Right, we talked a lot about having fun in your business. And your specialty is to work with established coaches and private practitioners who have reached a revenue ceiling and to want to create a higher ticket offer and a more scalable business model. And you are able to help them to really grasp that big vision and all its complexity and to help to decide how to move forward. So that you know it’s fun, in alignment, and it’s impactful for their clients and also for them and their business. So let’s dive into the rejection piece because I would so love to know how you used to handle rejection. Maybe in your earlier business endeavors and what you learned and the process so that now it’s so much easier to overcome.

Holly Chantal [4:55]
There’s a really interesting topic because my answer is probably not going to be what you would have used to handle rejection. So let’s define rejection as you know, from having a sales conversation with a potential client. And they say, No, I’ll think about it, they ghost me whatever. Basically, it’s that we don’t end up working together. That’s what I’m going to define rejection as because there’s a lot of different ways you can be rejected in your business. And how I used to handle that was just, you know, moving on saying like, okay, they’re not interested in moving on. And what I’ve learned through my last 10 years in business is oftentimes it’s, it’s not that you weren’t a fit. It’s not that your offer wasn’t good enough. It’s not that they really weren’t interested. It actually comes down to how well, you were explaining the offer in the conversation, it comes down to their confidence in themselves.

Holly Chantal [6:01]
There are so many other factors and I feel like back then I was probably just giving up too quickly. Because I didn’t want to be pushy. I didn’t want to feel salesy, and, you know, to be fair, there were always other leads coming in. So, if this is happening for you, what you really want to look at is, you know, what, what is your message saying? Like, how are you describing your offer when you’re on the phone with someone, because for me, I would fall into a very process-oriented language. And like, we have a really good conversation, we’d be really excited about working together, and then it would get down to okay, well, how does it work, and I would go into like, robot mode. And very, like a pedantic language, because that’s how, like, that’s how I see my work. And instead of really shifting the way I was explaining the work to put it into context for them so that they could see themselves going through the process. So they could see, you know, what the outcomes are going to be that they were going to have while working together.

Holly Chantal [7:12]
Because even though I was very confident in knowing that I could help them and note, like being able to see like, why they were having the challenges they were having, and knowing that I could fix those for them, essentially. Unless I could adequately explain how that was gonna work to them. It was asking for way too much trust upfront for them to say yes. So it’s basically like, Yes, I know, I can do it. You know, you just need to trust me, hand me a few $1,000. And I’ll make it happen. It’s like, that’s not gonna happen. I would never buy something, buy from someone that like, was offering that asking for that much trust upfront, because I would want to know, okay, like, what happens if we don’t?

Holly Chantal [7:58]
What happens if we get on the phone and you really don’t understand what I’ve been going through? Because we’ve only been talking to each other for 15 minutes? Like those kinds of questions, you need to be able to answer those in the call. Because those are all the things that are going through your prospects’ heads. So now, so before with objection, I would just kind of let it go, move on. Now, I dig a little bit deeper when I’m talking to prospects and it’s not in a pushy salesy way. It’s really in understanding what’s actually going on through their head. So if I feel like a shift in energy, I will ask them, you know, it seems like you were really excited like five minutes ago. What happened? Where are you right now? What are you going through? What’s going through your head? Do you? Are you feeling scared? Are you feeling excited? Like, what is half? Are you just trying to figure something out, like what changed? And this starts a really interesting dialogue, where we get to talk about it.

Holly Chantal [9:01]
And I come across as very casual anyway, so I don’t have to worry about being perceived as salesy, because that’s just not who I am. And if you’re someone that’s worried about coming across as salesy, chances are, you’re not because that’s not who you are. You wouldn’t be asking yourself that question. If you are someone that was really pushy. Yeah. So by having that open dialogue, it really shows your clients or your potential clients, what it is like to work with you and that you see the underlying. You can sense those underlying things that are going on and are asking the right questions to help them verbalize it because oftentimes, they don’t know. So now, rejection is a lot different. And I’m much more comfortable having those conversations and which results in really better client relationships as you go on.

Christine Schlonski [9:58]
Yeah, I love that because I feel people want to be heard, they want to be seen. And your job as a coach is to point out that something is off at the moment when they shift energy when they were excited. And now maybe right after you set the investment they go like, and that’s something that can be handled because you know, you can bring them results.

Holly Chantal [10:23]
Yeah, and oftentimes, when you’ve given them the told them the investment, for example, at that point, they shift from, you know, visualizing the work and everything they’re going to have and everything to all of a sudden, okay, how am I gonna pay for this? And so they start calculating things in their mind, and their focus goes somewhere else, essentially, it really has nothing to do with you. It’s that they, their focus has now shifted from forward-thinking to problem-solving. And they get uncomfortable because they know you’re sitting there waiting for an answer. So they start feeling the pressure that makes them get overwhelmed and anxious. And, and their brain goes, nope, goodbye. To get off the phone. Like it triggers that fight or flight response for something that’s very, very simple.

Holly Chantal [11:14]
So if you can open up that dialogue, and be there with them when they’re experiencing that, that anxiety will actually dissipate. So by asking them, okay, like what shifted? You know, are you what if you ask them, What shifted? They’ll say, well, now I’m trying to figure out, you know, how can I afford this? You know, I only have this much going into dadadada, and you can have that conversation, say, you know what? I don’t need an answer right, this second, let me help you. You know, let’s talk about it. What part of the like, what part are you afraid of? Is it that, you know, you can’t see yourself paying this all right now, when a payment plan helps, if not like? Or is it that you’re afraid that if we’re going to do all this, and you’re not going to get the results. So if you talk about those things, and really uncover for them where that anxiety is coming from, because again, it’s one of those things they don’t know, their brains just overloaded. And it’s like, I need to peace out for a second.

Holly Chantal [12:11]
So by being present with them, and talking about it, it uncovers for them what’s going on, and then in if you guys listen to the last episode, we were talking about examining fear, and seeing is something that I really should be afraid of, or is it just a fear that’s just been triggered? And for them? That’s kind of what’s happening right now. So if you examine, okay, what, where’s the anxiety coming from? Is this something that is a legitimate fear of survival? Or is it something that can be easily navigated or mitigated, then you’re kind of helping them work that out? And by being again, by being there present with them, you’re demonstrating what kind of coach you are? And that, because you’re, they’re gonna come into these situations when they’re working with you, where you’ve asked them to do something, and their brains like, oh, no, look, I can’t do that, all these things are gonna happen. And they, all of a sudden, they feel anxious, and they don’t know why. But you’re gonna be there to help them navigate that, and, you know, come out on the other side, and it’s just, it becomes a service to them. Really.

Christine Schlonski [13:12]
Yeah, I just love that. Because if you’re really mindful of how they shifted, and you know, as you said, they’re going from excitement into problem-solving and to overwhelm, because now they figure out, like, Where do I take that money from? And do you feel it’s important to find out if they really want to work with you first? Or would you just go with the investment and then go into problem-solving yourself?

Holly Chantal [13:42]
They do really, really do want to, like, you will kind of know, or at least I do when it’s like they actually do want to work with you. But that is one of the first questions you should be asking before you go into problem-solving. Because it’s not all about you know, how am I going to pay for something if someone is legitimately going to struggle because of investment, it might not be a good fit, like I never sell to someone that can’t afford it, if that makes sense. If it’s going to be between paying me and paying your mortgage, paying me paying I had someone I found out they weren’t paying their child support. I stopped, we stopped work. When I found that out. I was like nope, like, this is not a good fit, like we meet I need to feel confident that’s because again, in the last episode we were talking about you, make your stitches and differently when you’re in survival mode. And I cannot do my best work if you’re in survival mode. So we need to, you know, give you the pieces that you need to get to the point where you are comfortable making the investment.

Holly Chantal [14:51]
But anyway, a lot of times the investment question is not actually because they can’t afford it. It comes from the, you know, am I going to be? Is this investment going to get me where I want? This feels like a lot of money right now. And I’m afraid of losing that by working with you and not and you’re not delivering what you say, sometimes what you say sounds too good to be true. And then it’s and then it’s like, again, just a trust thing. So again, by cracking that open and talk to them, you’ll get down to, like, what is the real issue here? And if it’s an issue of, you know, I’m not gonna be able to pay my bills, well, there’s your answer. But if it’s an issue of trust, or what happens if this doesn’t work, then that’s really a messaging thing, either. You just didn’t, the way you described, something just didn’t land in for them. Or it’s just you, you need to be able to mitigate that risk for them.

Holly Chantal [15:53]
And I’ve asked people before, like, what, you know, you 100% want to do this. There’s some fear here, though. So what can I do to alleviate that fear? And they might say, you know if we get on a call, and I feel like you’re not getting it, I want to stop. And I’m like, that’s fine. Yeah. Like, if we get on a call, and you and we find that you know, maybe what you’re talking about is more complex than I think it is. That’s totally fair, we’ll stop work, I’ll give you your money back. That’s fine. Never happened, it never happened. But if that’s what you need, in order to feel confident and comfortable, I’m totally okay doing that. And that comes up maybe like one in 10 times where someone needs that risk reversal. But I’m confident in my abilities and that I’m talking to this person, I know that we’re a good fit, I know that I’m going to be able to deliver what they want, that I’m okay putting little trust in them. Because I’m also asking for them to put trust in me. So it becomes a two-way street.

Christine Schlonski [17:02]
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I had that the other day. It was really interesting. where a person said to me, I’m not, I don’t know if I am worth that investment to myself. Yes, that was pretty powerful. And, you know, I told her, well, that’s a decision I can’t make for you. Right. So she thought about it, and then she signed up. But I thought that it was really interesting that a person actually has these thoughts and sets them out loud, because many people might think that, and they’re like, or even subconsciously, they have never invested in themselves. And at that level, they don’t see themselves as worthy enough, because they haven’t produced results. And I think when we realize that, we just can make that invitation. And from that invitation, they have to decide if they are worth that kind of investment, that kind of importance they give themselves is not something you can handle for them.

Holly Chantal [18:12]
Right. Yeah. And I mean, really, the conversation is always about them deciding for themselves.

Christine Schlonski [18:20]
Yeah.

Holly Chantal [18:20]
And so yeah, and I think that that’s another really important point when it comes to these sales conversations is to, to put that power in their hands where you’re not trying to convince them of something like some coaches might react and say you’re totally worth it, you go and try to convince them of their worth. But that’s not your role in this scenario. Now, if I’m working with a client and they’re having self-doubt, worthiness, limiting beliefs, that kind of thing, like then that’s something we work on because that’s part of the coaching relationship, but it really the sales conversations it is all about them making the decision of where did, how do they feel about the next steps? Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [19:12]
Well and rare occasions, right? When sometimes someone walks away because they just can’t get over that hurdle or whatever that is. I don’t know about you, but I feel really, really sad for them because I know it’s about them and they’re saying no to themselves. How do you deal with it? I mean, a) do you feel that and b) if so, how do you deal with those emotions because I know, I keep thinking about those people and I feel really upset for them because they have denied that success to themselves.

Holly Chantal [19:46]
Right? So can I get really attached to people when we have a sale like when we have that strategy session? I get so like 10 steps ahead in what I see for them, that it is so hard for me when they walk away. And so what I’ve used to get very disappointed in myself, because I felt like I wasn’t able to, it must be a communication issue on my part that they couldn’t see what I see for them. And I see, you know, and I love their work, I love what they’re doing, like I just, I want to work with them so that I never make the invitation unless I feel like that 100% in. And so what I’ve started to do is I kind of send them like a good like, I set the intention for them that they are going to find the piece that they’re missing, whether that be that internal belief shift, whether that be another coach that might be able to meet them on the level that they’re looking for, like there, there was a disconnect between us, but I just set the intention that they’re going to find whatever the best next step is for them. So that they can continue on their journey because I want all the good things for them. And I like I can see their potential, and I just might not be the next step to reaching that potential, they might need to take a different path. Or maybe I’m someone that they’ll run back into later. So I try to disconnect myself from it. And, you know, just let them, I don’t know how spiritual but from an energetic level, like, kind of give them that boost.

Christine Schlonski [21:35]
Yes, yeah, I totally hear you. And I’m sure a lot of listeners can follow, like holding that space. And yeah, I always say like, be attached to the goal, but don’t be attached to the outcome. Right? You want for them to work with you. If they are your soulmate client, as I call them, if you really know you can get results and help them to be so much better off you want to work with them. But then when they say no, not to be attached to that outcome, the direct outcome of the conversation is so important. And as you said, Yeah, I totally see that potential. And it really, yeah. makes me upset sometimes when they walk away. Because I feel that hurt. Right? Because when you see that potential and you see that they will not fulfill it. Right now. Then that’s something I

Holly Chantal [22:31]
I will be the one helping them fulfill it. They will fulfill it eventually.

Christine Schlonski [22:35]
Yeah, eventually. Yes. Well, yeah. Right after the session. It’s like, let’s get started right? or whatever, the course or the coaching program, the group starts off interesting, so I’m glad I’m not by myself was that one? Yeah, so I’m quite sure you’ve read a ton of books in your life, what would be a book coming to mind that you could share with us that made a big difference in your life?

Holly Chantal [23:08]
So not a business book. But the first book that came to mind when you ask that was “The Alchemist”. Have you read that book?

Christine Schlonski [23:14]
Paulo Coelho.

Holly Chantal [23:15]
Paulo Coelho. Yeah, that book has really been on top of mind lately. And it’s such a quick read. And it really, I don’t know, it just has such a profound message in it in how you’re following your path. And that is definitely a book that I would recommend to anyone, especially if you’re in a point where you’re having a hard time navigating where you are, that’s kind of when I was introduced to the book was when I was in a point where I really wasn’t sure which way I wanted to turn in. It felt like everything that was wrong that I was doing, or every step I was taking was the wrong step. And that book definitely goes a long way to helping you kind of find your alignment and finding you know what your next steps are.

Christine Schlonski [24:06]
Love it. Thank you so so much. Well, this was again, so much fun, I could talk to you forever. And I feel like we do have this alignment, this vibe, this, you know, helping others in that beautiful way of empowering them to sell more and to make more revenues or they can have more impact. And you brought us a beautiful gift. So it’s basically a worksheet, the Trailblazing Trifecta Worksheet. So what’s the Trailblazing Trifecta worksheet?

Holly Chantal [24:37]
Yeah, so it’s that trailblazingtrifecta.com and so one of the main things that I do is work on my clients with their messaging. So how they’re describing their work in a way that attracts like their perfect match clients. So you were talking about soulmate clients. And so how you’re marketing yourself and what you’re saying in your marketing is really going to determine who you attract. So if you’re attracting clients that can’t afford you or aren’t at a place where they can take the best advantage of your work, or you’re not, you’re putting messages out there, and you’re not attracting any clients, usually, it’s a messaging thing. And so the Trailblazing Trifecta will help you work through your message. And it’s three sentences, that help you bring context to the work that you do in a way that your perfect match clients can see themselves.

Holly Chantal [25:32]
It helps you describe the work you do in a way that is very, very clear, especially for those of you that have very intangible services, like a lot of coaches, they can’t measure the return on investment in dollars and cents, for example, or what you do is a little bit intuitive, and not concrete steps that people can just understand what you’re talking about. So it really helps you put words to all of that, and in a way that you can deliver in an elevator speech at a networking event, on a webinar, on your website, or when you’re having a strategy session with someone and you’ve gotten to a point where you’re making that invitation. So it’ll help you do that. And it’s very, very simple. And people find it, you can do it in like 10 to 15 minutes. And it’ll completely change how you talk about your work.

Christine Schlonski [26:25]
Beautiful. Well, thank you so, so much. Thank you for sharing that wisdom that you have accumulated and you know, everything you are in your experiences. And as a human being in this episode, I just, I just loved it that it was so rich, and I hope people took notes. And I even I hope even more they take action and get themselves to the next level because you obviously showed it can be done. And you can really shorten the time you don’t need 10 years to six figures, you can do it in 18 months, maybe even faster, maybe a little bit slower. But it’s definitely possible when you have fun and when your business serves you and your lifestyle as well. Thank you so, so much for sharing that.

Holly Chantal [27:12]
Thank you for having me. It’s so good to talk to someone that you know we have had that kind of synergy.

Christine Schlonski [27:19]
Thank you so so much and everyone else for saying bye for now, have an amazing time and tune in next time. But I just loved both of these episodes with Holly Chantal. I hope you check them out both hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the podcast tab and Episode 330 and 331. All the links that connect to Holly Chantal are on the page. It’s just one click away. Also in the resource section, you find a wonderful free gift. And also I have put an invitation there for you to join the Heart Sells! Magic Workshop, that is a workshop I am going to teach life. And if you are looking for more clients, then I have a wonderful gift for you. And that is the Heart-Centered Lead Generation Summit Experience, which you can check out at the experience tab. And there I will invite you to join 40 amazing experts and their wonderful strategies to Heart-Centered Lead Generation. Thank you so much for having been here. I hope you are enjoying those episodes. If you do please subscribe, rate, review, share with your friends, and I am sending you lots and lots of love from Germany. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in the beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.