Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous. This is episode number 325. And I’m super excited that Anke Herrmann is back on the show today.

Anke Herrmann [0:09]
Hi, this is Anke Herrmann. You are listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy. Well,

Christine Schlonski [0:17]
I am so super excited Anke is back with us today. She is the author of “Taming The Tech Monster” and she helps passionate, but tech frustrated authors, coaches, and educators to map out the steps and implement the online tech needed to turn their big vision into a flourishing business without the headache. Anke herself has quit her software developer job in the UK in 2004, to move to Spain to open up her own business, and has been on the entrepreneurial journey ever since. So she will share some more interesting facts about how you can tame your tech monster today.

Christine Schlonski [1:01]
In case we have not met yet, I’m Christine Schlonski, the host of Heart Sells! Podcast, where I talk with inspirational successful heart-centered entrepreneurs and leaders about how they have built a wildly successful business, and many of them had to overcome challenges in selling their products and services. Some of my amazing past guests include Mark Hunter, Bob Burg, John Lee Dumas, Andrea Waltz, Ann Wilson as well as Suzy Carter, and many, many more.

Christine Schlonski [1:34]
This episode today is brought to you by Heart Sells! Academy, where we support heart-centered ambitious entrepreneurs to really redefine sales so that they can grow exponentially in their business and impact, why creating the lifestyle and freedom they are looking for. So if selling just doesn’t feel good to you, and therefore you feel it’s holding you back in creating a wildly successful business and lifestyle. Hop on over to christineschlonski.com to learn more, and find out how we can help you to sell with ease grace, confidence, while being authentic and true to your values. Enjoy the next episode with the wonderful Anke Herrmann. Well, I am so super pumped. You are back Anke welcome.

Anke Herrmann [2:22]
Thanks for having me back. I’m excited to be back.

Christine Schlonski [2:24]
Yeah, I love our conversation. Like, you know, so many people are afraid of sales and are afraid of tech. Right? I know I’m gonna master the sales piece. That’s just a question of time when transferring from my job into being an entrepreneur. But there’s tech stuff, you know, I struggled for such a long time. And you made an interesting comment. I don’t know if it was on the first episode, or if it was on one of our many conversations, that it’s also a mindset piece. And oftentimes, it’s not really the tech. It’s the mindset that comes with it. Let’s dive in.

Anke Herrmann [3:04]
Hmm, I think the mindset is everything. Like it’s literally everything because especially when you think about the way online technology in the platforms, somebody will have to deal with to create whatever they want to create for their business. These days, they don’t have to deal with zeros and ones. Every platform has an interface that is made for people who own technical minds so nobody really has to deal with anything strictly technical, but the fear that comes from that sensation of I’m out of my depth here. I don’t know how this all works and take isn’t my thing and they don’t realize that it’s just like any old thing you know nothing about right if I don’t know, I when I first moved to Spain, I wanted to have a scooter. Because not because I like to beagles. No, I don’t really. I still don’t but you know, to get around town by car was just forget about that. So the scooter, was like, logical.

Christine Schlonski [4:21]
Next move.

Anke Herrmann [4:22]
Yeah, you know, but then I also knew, if I was going to go to a shop and say, hey, I want a scooter. You know, being a foreigner or being a woman I’m gonna get so lost. Like you kind of knew, I knew I had to prepare. And I spent literally a few months researching scooters. Because you look at the scooters that are available and you see the specifications. And this one’s great for this and you, I don’t know. big wheels. Is that a good thing? Do I need this? You don’t know? Right? And there is no way of knowing unless you actually do the research, you dive in, and you get curious about the topic and enjoy the learners’ attitude I earned. And so I knew I wasn’t going to walk into the show until I knew exactly what I wanted. And I knew I was going to understand any answers to any questions I’d get. And so, at the end, I bought a scooter. And it was fantastic. I had it for nine years, it was just absolutely wonderful. But it took my time to research and I found it was actually interesting.

Anke Herrmann [5:33]
You know, the further you dive in, the more interesting it gets. And it’s the same with, we see it with tech all the time, people want the scooter and but they want it now. And they don’t want to do the research part because that’s boring, I don’t want to know. But then there’s this conflict because you also know if you go to buy the scooter today, and you haven’t done your research, like your, you know, you basically have a big sign up on your forehead saying, you know, rip me off. And I really, I really don’t know why people feel so different about tech in the sense that any other subject when you knew, you knew, and you can start with the basics, and you learn what you need to learn to do what you need to do in order to hand it over to somebody or to get it sorted in some way. But with tech, there’s this impatience, like, oh, I just want this done. I just wanted to work and skip all the other stuff. So it’s literally that all slow down to speed up is really the only way that also takes out the overwhelm. And it takes that feeling of being out of your depth. You know, if you kind of go deep first before you run from forward,

Christine Schlonski [6:48]
And I think you know, the tech stuff is nothing you expect, as an entrepreneur or as an entrepreneur to be that you have to plan time to handle all these things. I didn’t plan time, you know, entrepreneurs are usually, they’re creative, they want to get stuff done, you know, do you want the first successes, and then all the tech stuff is really in the way. So for everyone listening, I just want to encourage you to plan time for it. And I adapted the attitude, one of my mentors used to mention that I’ve said, Well, why don’t I adopt this attitude, I really like it. She figured out herself, how it works. And then she was comfortable handing it off because she knew what to expect. She could explain what she wanted, right? Going back to your scooter. If you don’t even know what kind of scooter you want, like what kind of feeling you want, when you sit on it, right? How the measurements need to be to fit your body to make it easy for you to drive around with it. And all these things, you have to do a certain amount of research. And so I feel when people adopt that attitude, also with sales, learn how to sell your own stuff first. Otherwise, you can’t give it to someone you will never understand if they’re a good salesperson, or if they’re not that great. Because they can tell you whatever they want to tell you. And you don’t have any experience to compare it with.

Anke Herrmann [8:17]
That’s so true. I love that you say that. Because I often get pushback from people, especially when they’re a little bit further advanced in their business. And I’m like, no, no, I don’t want to deal with that. I just outsource it. Right. And I’m not against outsourcing on the contrary, but I’m against fear-based outsourcing. I just will not have it when people come and say all you do it. I don’t want to know. No, it’s your business. It’s just like you wouldn’t hand over sales or you wouldn’t hopefully hand over your account details to a financial advisor. So you don’t want to deal with money, you do it. You know how many people have we seen who ended up in trouble and broke because they’ve done that with somebody who then wasn’t trustworthy with their money because you can’t even tell a good professional from a bad one.

Anke Herrmann [9:06]
And I’m always saying the objective isn’t to turn anybody into a geek. You know, feel free, feel free if you want to. But that’s not the objective. The objective is to know enough, as you say, to know enough to be a good client for somebody because it isn’t just this one way that you are vulnerable for other people to rip you off. Like you’re also a giant pain to work with. If you have molecules, right. So if somebody comes to you, you know, like you’re not, or there’s always that sometimes people you see in software projects. It’s quite funny when you get people in common. Oh, and I just want something really simple. I just want to kind of have the swipe across and the thing kind of magically, and you think you know what you want is artificial intelligence. You know, your budget is probably to have like some Lego pieces together. So that mismatch of that total ignorance or, you know, not knowing what’s possible, and how much effort it involves, it makes you, really difficult to work with clients. Right?

Christine Schlonski [10:15]
Yeah and ignorance can be quite expensive too.

Anke Herrmann [10:17]
Oh, hell yeah. So it doesn’t really, I think it’s the same. So it’s not about never outsourcing. But if you need, you need to at least understand how the pieces fit together and why it’s a good idea, to make, to do it this way. And, and as you say, the same with sales, you know, if you know how to do it, then you can hand it over. And then you can tell a good salesperson from a bad one. And you can tell a good tech provider from a bad one.

Christine Schlonski [10:46]
Yeah, totally. Yeah, get like, get a basic understanding. And then after a while, you know, things will click right for me, you know, my frustration level had to get pretty high, which happened very fast too, to sit down and really try to understand it. And to, to kind of put the pieces together. And now you know, things when I look back, like things that make me so frustrated, like two years ago, or a year ago, it’s now it’s like more like having a piece of cake. It’s just like, oh, I need to do this, and this and this, I need to connect this with this. And

Anke Herrmann [11:23]
Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [11:23]
You know, I can build a funnel in no time, where others pay 1000s of dollars to outsource it. And there’s not that understanding. And that happened to me too, right? Like my first opt on. I remember, you know, creating it, that was a challenge for itself. And then you had it done. And you didn’t know like, how do I get people to download it from my website. So I remember I gave that task to someone who claimed she knew what she was doing. And you know, looking back, well, she got the job done. I don’t think she knew what she was doing. Because she was in a totally different field with all our other services. And I probably totally overpaid, she probably just needed an hour or two to put it into place. But I think I paid a retainer of like 20-25 hours or something. So totally insane. And from that painful experience. You know you learn and if you shift your mindset because you said it’s like that mindset piece. What can people do today, who are a little bit frustrated in their tech game, and their sales game as well, because we found that those words are pretty parallel. What would you advise them, when you look at your business, what you learned around selling, and then also what you do with all the tech stuff and your clients? What are maybe a couple of mindset hacks people can use to get themselves into a mindset that supports them? Yeah,

Anke Herrmann [13:00]
I think one thing that I see a huge difference in the before and after is when people start to become aware of and observe how they handle things and other areas of their lives, they start to realize that what you have, you might not know how to do something in tech or in sales. But you have what it takes to figure it out. If you can learn to trust that. And there’s an example that I quite often like to because it’s funny, and it really drives the point home when a lot of people have bought a washing machine in their lives. Right? And so brand new washing machines comes lots of dials, lots of programs, and usually little or no, what does. And there are literally two types of people, some will go, let’s just turn it on and see what happens. And other people will read the manual, but both work off the assumption that they have the capacity to figure out how the washing machine works. Nobody, at least, that I know of has ever thought of all washing machines. I don’t know, I don’t want to know about washing machines. I don’t know how they work. It’s all too hard, centered back. Oh,

Christine Schlonski [14:19]
Yeah.

Anke Herrmann [14:20]
in so many areas of your life. You learn new stuff all the time. And you never question that you have the capacity to figure it out. You know, Marie Forleo, his book, “Everything Is Figureoutable”. My thing that applies to tech and sales, as well. And if you can start working, at least allowing a glimpse that that might be true. The whole outlook changes because then like, Oh my god, this is all kind of like oh no, becomes like, let’s see how I’m gonna figure that one out. But then it becomes almost a challenge. It becomes almost a game and then all of a sudden see things happen and all of a sudden you do something that you didn’t think you could. And that is, so nothing’s quite as addictive as progress, because then you’ll be more adventurous for the next thing. And next thing you know, you’ve got the whole funnel, and you can’t remember what the heck the problem was, right?

Christine Schlonski [15:17]
Yeah, totally. And that’s a great book, “Everything Is Figureoutable”. And I had the opportunity to actually go to that open ceremony when she had her big book launch event in New York, it was really, really cool. So thanks for triggering that nice memory. And, yeah, so I observed that once I got over that hurdle, and I could kind of relax into the task because now I had decided, I’m gonna do this, then things became easier, because, you know, kind of pushed through that wall of resistance. So do you give your clients like any task? Like any question they can ask, or do they do journaling? Or meditating? Or what do you? What do you do if that ball that tech ball is so huge? Or the monster you talk about the tech monster, even though your monster is so cute? What if the monster is so big?

Anke Herrmann [16:16]
And I actually had literally had this happen last night. Client goes, I just need to tell you, I’m just really freaking out right now. I’m so scared of this. I know I want to have it but I really like it, almost like an anxiety attack. And the idea of getting, what steps can I take, and I might, okay, let’s just get cracking your first job, create a folder, collect the images, create a folder, collect testimonials, go through your Facebook feed, find all the posts that you think might be worth, you already working on your website, and there’s nothing technical in there. Right? And I just get them to, it’s almost like I nudged them over the potholes, I don’t let them put their foot down. And so sort of nudge them over, you know, now no no, what you need to do next is this. And then the next thing you need to do is this. And then all of a sudden, I pointed out, have you noticed you haven’t actually done anything technical yet, but we’ve done 80% of the work. And so that normally gets them out of that, that sense of like, oh, there’s something technical, that’s too hard. The next task, the next step towards building that website is collecting the material. And that’s got nothing to do with tech. It’s got to do with us sifting through the photos, you’ve got, to look for the ones that you might want to use on your website. You know the next step is, what experience do you want your potential clients to have? What is it, that the message, that you want to send them in a variety of different ways when they come to your website, think about that? You know, we’re building a website, but that’s not technical either. And most of it, literally 80 to 90% of the work is that, and then they tend to like, oh, okay, well, I can do that. You know, and then it just kind of, and once they get moving, and I think then it’s like the moment they start seeing it take shape, then they get excited, right. And I’ve had so many people who say, Well, I don’t know, I never thought I really enjoyed this, I never thought this would be so much fun. Because then they see it that it’s actually a process of creation. And most people, you know, at least most of my clients have this creative streak and they love creating things. And when they can see that tech stuff is actually a process of creation, the fear, the anxiety tends to melt away.

Christine Schlonski [18:50]
I love that. I feel it’s the same as sales.

Anke Herrmann [18:53]
It’s exactly the same.

Christine Schlonski [18:54]
When you take the very off of you like what, what is the person going to think? Will I be able to deliver? What kind of offer I’m going to go, will I make? And I like all these, then you put yourself in the shoes of your client and you’re just there to serve and to hold the space. And all of a sudden you are at the end of the sales conversation. And you didn’t even notice that, right? You think about it, that was fun. That was such a great conversation, right turning a sales conversation into a fun conversation. Thinking about tech turning that into a game. I found that really, really supportive.

Anke Herrmann [19:34]
Yeah, I think so. And I think with sales, it’s, it’s, it’s in both cases if you really become clear on what the objective actually is, in, you know, in sales, I think what makes it awkward for a lot of people is the idea that if you think that you need to shove your product down somebody’s throat, even if they might not really want it, well, then that’s awkward. But I mean, that’s not really what you want to do. I think at the end of the day, you want to help somebody make a decision, whether what you offer is right for them or not. It’s got nothing to do with you. And it also is the other objective this he said, as we said before, it’s like, well, is this a client that you actually want to work with? You know, so it’s this both ways street, and all of a sudden, the whole flavor of the conversation shifts. And with technology, it’s the same thing. The objective isn’t to set up configure software, the objective is to use the right tools to create what you want to create for your clients. But if the focus is on what experience you actually want to create for my client, you know, then the tech kind of loses its, it’s scary bits as well

Christine Schlonski [20:56]
I totally agree. Totally agree. So talking about that, what does Heart Sells! mean for you?

Anke Herrmann [21:07]
Heart Sells! means for me, that there’s a huge difference depending on where you’re coming from when you’re offering a service or product. And if you come from that place of wanting to help solve a problem for somebody, or help somebody get somewhere where they want to go and show up with everything you’ve got, like with the way you are without a mosque without having it this mechanic or I need to look like this so that they can think that when you can be you. And when you come from that space of service, rather than let me shove something down their throat and make a sale. And I think people can feel that. And I think that connection, people can feel it. And then the whole transaction becomes simple.

Christine Schlonski [22:03]
Yeah, totally, totally agree.

Anke Herrmann [22:07]
is the word that really comes to mind.

Christine Schlonski [22:10]
Yeah, I love that. Is there any book when you look back, and I’m quite sure there are many, but like one that comes to mind that really made a difference in your life?

Anke Herrmann [22:24]
Dr. George S. Pransky is “The Relationship Handbook”. It’s because I think when I first started, like, left the job, the corporate world started going out on my own, the biggest problem I had was that there was always that sense that my clients were pressuring me and putting were very demanding. And, you know, and I was always Mrs. Nice girl and sort of too much of a people pleaser. And at the end of that I was feeling worn out because I couldn’t say no to people, and they would ruthlessly take advantage of that. And so it got me well apart from burnout in this into a space of feeling kind of almost victimized, you know, by my demanding clients. And this book really set my head straight. But it helped me see that no, no, no sweetheart, the stress, you felt the pressure you felt did not come from your clients, you made that up all yourself, right, it kind of has a really humbling moment, but then liberating at the same time, because then all of a sudden, took the power, power away from other people. And I could literally change my whole experience of that business or it’s probably the one most impactful book that I’ve read.

Christine Schlonski [23:50]
Awesome, thank you so much for sharing that and sharing your story. But that, I think that’s very inspiring. And probably many people have felt that way, in, you know, being taken advantage of, for having demanding clients. And one way I feel that happens is when you don’t have your prices, right? Because then you will feel like they are taking and taking and taking, your giving and giving and giving. It’s totally out of balance. It’s out of harmony. And at the end of the day, that entrepreneur gets frustrated, and they start rejecting their clients. While in reality, unfortunately, they have given them, the space and they have made the invitation. So it’s such an important piece that you talked about that I wanted to give that a little highlight.

Anke Herrmann [24:40]
Oh, that’s so very true. That’s so very true. And I think that the big misunderstanding that well you know, it was one of those lessons learned the hard way. I think initially when you’re sort of new you kind of think this I kind of felt I was buying myself some slack or It may or somehow having lower prices was gonna make it an easier sale. And, you know, boy that’s wrong, it does not make it an easier sale, it just changes the dynamic and, and yeah, and I was definitely in that space that I would resent my clients because I felt taken advantage of an iPhone, they got so much more than they paid for. And it didn’t. And I mean, it wasn’t even that it was the, I guess it was the lack of gratitude that I expected them to be grateful, really, I expected them to be conscious of, hey, I’ve been getting this deal has been lopsided, I’ve been getting so much more than I’ve paid for. And I found that wasn’t true. People didn’t realize that. They just thought, well, let me just squeeze a little more and feel like and get some more. So it’s definitely a dynamic that that isn’t helpful for anybody,

Christine Schlonski [25:54]
Mmmm Yeah, I love that I will definitely put the book in the resource section as well. But what we’re going to put in the resource section, obviously, are all the links to you so people can connect with you and your amazing work. And also you brought us a free download of your book “Taming The Tech Monster”. So tell us a little bit about the book and why people should read it.

Anke Herrmann [26:21]
Yeah, I think the little tech monster, if you see the cover, you’re gonna have a good giggle because there’s a little, little tech monster, he’s got a name even. And so he’s taken on a life of its own. And I think that the core message of what the book really is about is to demonstrate that what looks like a scary monster is really just a friendly little dragon that wants to play. And you have what it takes to figure out what you need to figure out how to get the tech off your mind and sort it.

Christine Schlonski [26:53]
Beautiful. Well, thank you so, so much Anke. I really enjoyed this conversation. So interesting to see what tech has to do the sales, and also so beautiful to see the progress you have made as an entrepreneur. You know, how you really turned into being that successful entrepreneur, even though you didn’t like sales. And you know, you overcame all of that mindset. So thank you so, so much for sharing today with the audience.

Anke Herrmann [27:22]
Thank you so much for having me. And I think the more people can make a living or doing something that they’re really passionate about, it makes the world a better place. So the more we can support, the better.

Christine Schlonski [27:35]
I totally agree. 100% Thank you so so much.

Anke Herrmann [27:39]
Thank you.

Christine Schlonski [27:40]
So are you ready to tame your tech monster? I hope you are because life is so much more beautiful without the tech frustration. And I really hope that you have learned something that will help you next time. A frustrating situation is just looking around the corner, to shift your mindset and to take it with curiosity, and enjoy the process. Hop on over to christineschlonski.com. Find the podcast tab with the wonderful episodes of Anke’s 324 and 325. You have the transcript over there, the show notes, the key points, as well as the resources we talked about. And all the links that connect to Anke with just one click. When you’re over there, sign up for the Empowerment Notes. That is empowerment right into your inbox, where I share some tools, tips, advice, as well as some updates on Heart Sells! Podcast, and you can stay in the loop. So thank you so much for being here. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.