Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous. This is episode number 324 with the wonderful Anke Herrmann.

Anke Herrmann [0:09]
Hi, this is Anke Herrmann. You are listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:16]
Well, have you ever been frustrated by tech stuff I for sure have, and therefore I have an amazing guest today, Anke Herrmann and she’s a business coach and online tech mentor and consultant. She’s the author of “Taming The Tech Monster”. She’s a podcast host and a dog lover. In 2004, Anke Herrmann, quit her software developer job in the UK to start her own business in Spain. And today, she helps passionate but tech frustrated authors, coaches, and educators to map out the steps and implement the online tech needed to turn their big vision into a flourishing business without the headache. So I am so super excited to have Anke on the show today. In case we have not yet met, I’m Christine Schlonski, host of Heart Sells! Podcast, where I talk with inspirational, successful heart-centered entrepreneurs and business leaders about how they have built a successful business.

Christine Schlonski [1:15]
In case we have not met yet, I’m Christine Schlonski, host of Heart Sells! Podcast, where I talk with inspirational heart-centered entrepreneurs and business leaders about how they have built a wildly successful business. And as you might guess, in many cases, these entrepreneurs had to overcome their own challenges and struggles with selling, and so they can share from their heart and can give you amazing tips and advice. Some of my past guests include Bob Burg, Ann Wilson, Kate Erickson, Anthony Iannarino, Susie Carter, Andrea Waltz, just to name a few. And this episode is brought to you by Heart Sells! Academy, where we support heart-centered ambitious entrepreneurs, to really redefine sales, so that they can see sales as love, can grow their business exponentially, together with the impact they are creating. And they can create the lifestyle and the freedom they are looking for. So if selling doesn’t feel good for you, if sales are something you try to avoid, then you want to hop on over to christineschlonski.com and get more information on how we can help you to create a business that you love, while having more impact and selling more with ease, grace, and confidence, being authentic in the process. So let’s dive into today’s episode with Anke Herrmann, where we talk about lots of things and also about “The Slippery Slope Of Rejection”. Well, I am so super excited you’re here Anke welcome.

Anke Herrmann [2:52]
Well, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here, too.

Christine Schlonski [2:54]
Yeah, and we have a really interesting topic, which at first sight it does not really have anything to do with sales. But when you look closer, it does have to do with sales, because it will help people to free up time. So they can actually sell by doing things, maybe in a better way, or in a way that’s easier for them. We talk about “Taming The Tech Monster”, which for so many coaches, solopreneurs, healers, right, they want to serve, but they do not want to be held back by all the tech stuff. So tell me a little bit like how did you get into tech, especially as a woman? And why is it such an important topic for the entrepreneur who does not have like, a huge company yet? Or who is really kind of starting out or at the beginning of their entrepreneurial journey?

Anke Herrmann [3:54]
Yeah, I got into the world of technology in the mid-90s, more or less by accident, to be honest, I was stressed out and tired by my badly paid stressful translator job. And I literally sent out my resume to anybody who would have it. And I got a job in a software company. And all of a sudden, I found myself surrounded by, you know, all the programming tools and, programmers who were at the work with a lot of enthusiasm and passion. And my job was also giving me enough time to explore and to try things out. And I really got hooked quite quickly because I, as an ex translator it felt oh, you know, programming that’s just like a real language but simpler because it’s all structured and it doesn’t have all the exceptions. So I was, I’ve really felt drawn to it. And it didn’t take long until colleagues would come and say hey, you know, why don’t you take this on this industry exemption.

Anke Herrmann [5:00]
You could get a job at this. And I was like oh, but do I really want to work in an all-male environment I wasn’t keen, I imagined this to be really difficult. And I’d have to be twice as good to be half as accepted. And, and I wasn’t really technical growing up, I wasn’t a tomboy at all, like I was, you know, very girly in that sense. And so I thought I had too much to catch up to ever be any good at this. And so I put up quite a bit of resistance until curiosity kind of won me over. And I thought, well, let’s, I can try it out. If I don’t like it, I don’t have to keep going that way. And I found that literally all the ideas that I had about why this was going to be difficult, turned out to be no true.

Christine Schlonski [5:39]
Sound a little bit like sales.

Anke Herrmann [5:51]
Exactly. Right. So there was a lot of that. And it’s a big, big part of what I work on with my clients these days. Because there’s a lot of the time people have those same fears about, oh I’m not cut out for this, I’m not technical, I’m a woman, I’m too old because I also bought into this relatively late. And I’ve seen all of that, not to be true. And it’s important for people to start breaking these assumptions open, because, as you said, if you allow the tech hurdle to take up too much of your time, yeah, you don’t have time for other really important things to build your business. And headspace is a big one, you know, it’s a time itself. But it’s also the headspace and feeling preoccupied with it. And having that sense that all you worry about is some tech thing. And you don’t even have your head free to be creative when it comes to selling or to marketing or to offering or serving your clients. So it’s really the non-technical part of the tech problem is really where was the key over the list.

Christine Schlonski [7:09]
So interesting. I just love hearing those stories like, I got there by accident. Yeah, well, yeah, you know, I believe that I don’t know accidents that I somehow that feeling that you believe that. And I love how you said that like tech is so much easier because there are no exceptions made, but you learn a language, there are so many exceptions, like grammar, usually for me is nothing I really enjoy. I do pick it up. Well, of course, if you learned it in school, then you have to follow a certain system to survive the class. But when you learn it in real life, I just feel like tuning in listening, picking, picking it up, imitating really, really helps, and acquiring that skill. But it’s so true once you are over that hurdle over the resistance that where I was in a long, long time, that I didn’t want to waste time with all the technical stuff.

Christine Schlonski [8:12]
I didn’t know what to expect when I started my business. You know, just a calendar tool is not enough. So yeah, I love having that conversation today with you. Especially how people can overcome those tech hurdles. So they can free up their time for sales and sales, maybe they have the same emotions around it. Like this is something I have to do, but I don’t enjoy doing it. And I feel like this is kind of like a parallel world of sales and tech, they don’t usually enjoy it but they do need it to have a successful business. So it curiosity one year over. When your clients came to you, they’re probably not as curious as you used to be. So really figured out the thing. So they come and hire you. Tell us a little bit about the mindset. And also like how, when you started your business, how you overcame your mindset in, you know, selling or selling more or really being all of a sudden going from a job to a business owner.

Anke Herrmann [9:24]
Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot in that question. When people come to me, they usually have an idea for something that they want to create. You know, sometimes it’s like, I’m starting out with a business or sometimes it’s like, oh, you know, I’m thinking of creating this online program or series of workshops, but then they know they need at least part of it to be implemented online and they don’t usually even know where to start. And quite often they’ve been sold certain systems, certain platforms. That turned out to be not perfect. And so they’re hesitant, they’re not quite sure. And there’s really that. And I really see it all the time. Or it looks like a tech problem never is. And even the resistance even the oh, tech is even the fear of it. Nobody is scared of pixels on a screen. Maybe what people hate is that feeling of overwhelmed information overload, it’s when you standing there, and there’s somebody throwing balls at you from all sides, and you just can’t catch them all. And you know, that feeling people hate, people hate the feeling of being out of their depth of not underwater, having that feeling that they don’t really understand.

Anke Herrmann [10:47]
They in the jungle and don’t really know their way around the sensation of these predators lurking behind every time. That’s what people hate, not the pixels on the screen, not a piece of software, tool, or, you know, nobody hates a tool, it’s that sensation of I’m vulnerable for being taken for a ride, I don’t even know what to ask. When I ask I don’t really understand the explanation. Because most of the time, the explanations assume a certain level of knowledge that a lot of people just simply don’t have when you first start out. So there’s, it’s all of that, that makes the tech and the sales, you know, turn into a challenge. It’s really very much the same, the same thing. And I remember when I first left the job and started out on my own, I really, the biggest hurdle I found separating myself from what I was selling. Because it seemed, it seems always easy when you sell on behalf of the company. Right? Then all of a sudden, when somebody says no, well, you know, you don’t want it, whatever. But if I sell something that involves me as a person, then all of a sudden, it’s so easy to go down that slippery slope of rejection says something about me about my capabilities about you know, that rejection feels really personal. And seeing through that was the biggest challenge. But once you see through it, that people will always just buy what makes sense for them, then it’s much easier to you know, to show up fully and to not make a big story around somebody saying no to something you have.

Christine Schlonski [12:45]
Yeah, that’s such an important lesson. And you know, looking at, you know, your CV, so to speak, like you know, you lived in Germany, you move to the UK, you’re now in Spain. So that is a lot of potentials that you gave yourself to be rejected, right? Changing or switching a culture, changing country, changing language is not that easy. So when you look back, was it the fear was easier for you moving country than selling was it an equally strange feeling at first?

Anke Herrmann [13:26]
I think selling was harder, in a sense. Because I guess it’s always the challenges you expect. they’re easier to deal with because you can mentally prepare yourself. But I think our upbringing and at least, you know, union, anything I did before, didn’t prepare me for being my own boss. So the challenges that came there were really from directions that I didn’t see coming at all. Like, I did not know that this was going to be such a crash course and personal development, that it was more about who I am becoming, and what I’m selling. It’s not just about the product like I have to become the person who can, you know, sell that to somebody in a way so that they can see the value and they know that they’re getting their money’s worth out of whatever I’m offering.

Christine Schlonski [14:25]
Yeah, I love that comparison was a crash course and personal development. That’s what I feel to like going into entrepreneurship really is probably the best course and personal development you can take because now like all the theory becomes really, really practical all at once. And there’s no time to adjust. It’s either you’ve got to make it or you don’t. And yeah, it’s beautifully said.

Anke Herrmann [14:57]
I think it would have been easier if I’d looked into the direction of personal development before I started my business, it probably wouldn’t have surprised me that much. But I came with this total innocence like, oh, starting my own business. Well, that sounds like a good plan. Let’s go for it. So I really didn’t have any idea of this whole world of personal development. So I was totally surprised when it all of a sudden, felt really personal when somebody says, oh, but can I also have this? Or, oh, can I have this cheaper, and you know, it opened up all these, all these beliefs and assumptions that all of a sudden, became visible, and you can’t hide it. And because and also you have nowhere to hide. You can’t hide behind the job description, you can’t hide in a team, or you can’t kind of hide behind the boss or anything. So it’s just you there, you’re standing in front of the waves, and you take it all.

Christine Schlonski [16:00]
Interesting. Yeah, that’s so true. I love the piece that you can’t basically hide anymore. Yeah, that’s very very true. So for all those brave souls who are listening, well, obviously into self-development into creating a company or planning a company, and really want to become their own boss, what do you feel was one of your biggest learnings and, you know, in regards to sales that you mastered, and that you could share with the audience today.

Anke Herrmann [16:36]
The one thing that jumps to mind is that it has nothing to do with you. People buy what is the value to them, right now. And I think a lot of the time we are so especially when we’re so emotionally invested in what we’re offering, we make it a lot about us, and what we want them to experience and what we want them to have. But it’s easy to forget that people don’t, don’t care for them you’re offering is just one of the things they scroll past on a daily basis, online or wherever. So it’s about the value they perceive for themselves. And if you start looking at everything through that lens, from what you put on your website, to how you offer your course what you act, how you describe what you’re offering, if you have a course or program. And it’s incredible how often people send me all kind of have a look at my website, or can you have a look at my landing page, and I’m looking at this. So why should I care? Right? It’s all about them. It’s all about I want to do this, and I want to offer that and you think well, people don’t care. Show me how this is valuable to me. And we’re talking and I think that shift of perspective is, I think the most crucial element of the total.

Christine Schlonski [18:01]
Putting yourself into the client’s shoes, right? Or as I say, the soulmate client, like really the person you want to attract and not making any compromise because you’re not young, you are the boss, right? I mean, you can’t hide behind someone or behind the company, a job description, as you said earlier, but also, now you can make the decisions. And nobody can suggest you work with someone you don’t want to work with.

Anke Herrmann [18:30]
Like that. It’s true. I wish somebody had told me sooner. In the beginning, when I definitely fell for that pretty badly in the first few years that I thought, if somebody comes to me, inquiring about what I’m offering, that was my almost like, like a shop, or retail shop where you walk in and you expect, Okay, I’m coming in, I want this. And it’s your obligation to give to me what, you know what I want. And to realize that, as you say, I don’t have to work with anybody if I don’t want to. Yeah, that was kind of liberating. And there was there’s a saying of a guy called Landon Porter, he has a podcast as well. And he phrased that in a way that always stuck with me. And he said, Be very careful who you allow to obligate you with their money.

Christine Schlonski [19:27]
Mm hmm. I like that.

Anke Herrmann [19:30]
It just really, that really hit home for me, because it’s so true. And, and I’ve you know, I’ve put my foot in several occasions where I wasn’t careful and found myself working with people that weren’t a great fit, and then you don’t like I didn’t get to do my best work. They didn’t get the best result. So it doesn’t really you’re not doing them a favor either. So two people have clarity on who you can do your best work with. I think that’s probably more important than we initially think when we’ve sort of so worried about getting anybody to buy something. And to have that strength to say, No, no, I want to deliver my best work. And that happens with these people who have that problem.

Christine Schlonski [20:25]
Yeah, totally, like getting really, really clear on who you serve, and who you want to serve. Right? I feel when you really have that connection. That’s why I call them soulmate clients. Because if I don’t want them over for dinner, well, then I, you know that I don’t want to work with them at all. And, you know, this is obviously not true for an online course, or for, you know, an all-access pass for a summit series. But in general, the more I spend my time, or I invest my time, I want to really make sure I have the right people in front of me, because as you said, I know, you know, doing the best work. That’s, that’s what I want to do that lights me up.

Anke Herrmann [21:09]
I guess it takes a few misfits to even know yourself who the soulmate clients are. So I think you probably can’t jump the process. That process of getting clear on who that is. You know, we, I mean, I think being conscious of it helps a lot probably shortcuts, a lot of trouble, but I don’t think you can sort of skip and go straight to perfect client. All in one go. I think you, I think it’s a dance-like you step out with something. But then it also depends on sometimes it’s surprising, who actually responds I was. It always feels like part of this pattern spotting. You know, when you look at the people you work with and think, okay, who did I most enjoy? Or who did? Who got the best results, which are usually the same people? And then find what do they have in common? That’s really quite interesting. And it doesn’t always include everything you thought of in the beginning.

Christine Schlonski [22:13]
Yeah, but I think when you put it out at least, that you kind of has a checklist. And then when you see the red flags, you have the strength to say no. And then it is a process and I, you know, I always redefine my process as well. Right? I have like, the list with who the perfect soulmate is. And then from time to time, am I you know, add stuff that I didn’t see before with like, Oh, I really like this. This is so aligned. This was so much fun, like, edit it. And then the more clarity you have, it’s true, there’s probably no one, you know, hit it 100% at the first time, but also not making the mistake of taking someone on board that you regret taking on board can be avoided. And, you know, I did listen, to my coaches and mentors and people who told this, basically horror stories of wishing and praying that the contract was over because they took them on board because they needed the money. And all of that was like, oh, no, I never want to be in that situation. So knock on wood. I haven’t. But I do redefine my soulmate client on a regular basis. Yeah, yeah. So what was the very, very first thing that you ever sold in your entire life? Do you remember?

Anke Herrmann [23:39]
Oh, yeah, I remember. It was, it was actually a dress that I made for a friend. And it was really interesting because she had a party coming out like I think it was sort of her parents anniversary or something and she wanted to wear a dress. Now the thing she had, she had like her upper body was a different size from her lower body. So she could find skirts, she could find blouses, but she’d never find a piece that would fit you know, all over. So I made her a dress. So the first time I ever got paid for, you know,

Christine Schlonski [24:18]
For your work. How did it feel?

Anke Herrmann [24:22]
It felt fabulous. Absolutely fabulous.

Christine Schlonski [24:25]
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I love these stories because you know, just seeing what kind of interaction did you have? Did it feel good? Or did it not feel good? Did you get in trouble depending you know on your age and what you sold or not? It was really kind of defines your relationship with money as well and a certain sense for as an entrepreneur.

Anke Herrmann [24:49]
That’s very interesting. I never thought of it like that. But actually, now that you say is that wasn’t even the first one night I was actually something I made, but it’s always something that I made. And that dress was not the first thing because I remember now like, even earlier at school, I made, I can’t remember like a scarf or like knitting it was something knitted or crocheted or something that I had. And this friend of mine goes, Oh, I love this. I love this. And she didn’t pay me with money because we’re like, 12 we didn’t have any money. But she paid me with samples of lipsticks and stuff that her like little Avon kind of samples that she had. And that was like we were in East Germany like that was a treasure price, you know, that was probably worth more than in money. So that was the first time that I got kind of paid for something that I made. Now quite exciting.

Christine Schlonski [25:42]
SO you exchanged. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome, great, great story. Wonderful. But I can’t wait to have the next conversation with you. Time just flies by anything you want to leave us with for this first episode.

Anke Herrmann [25:55]
I think having your own business and selling and tech, it’s all the same thing. It’s perhaps more demanding than you’re being sold by a lot of the messages that come at you from all angles, but at the same time, it’s also so much more satisfying than you can ever imagine when you first start out. It’s just all, a little bit more intense than you might think. So it’s definitely a red pill kind of experience, but I don’t think you’ll ever regret it.

Christine Schlonski [26:32]
But thank you so so much. And I’m looking forward to our next interview.

Anke Herrmann [26:35]
Me too.

Christine Schlonski [26:36]
Well if you ever have faced tech frustration in your life, you probably could relate pretty well with this episode. I hope you have gotten lots of golden nuggets out of this episode. And if you feel that you could support some of your friends by listening to Heart Sells! Podcast, please just go ahead and share the podcast with your friends. Hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the podcast tab. And the episode with Anke, where you will also find the transcripts, the show notes, all the links that connect to Anke as well as the resources we talked about. Once you’re over there, sign up for the Empowerment Notes, which is empowerment right into your inbox, where I share updates on Heart Sells! Podcast where I also share some amazing resources, tools, and things that I have learned on my entrepreneurial journey. Thank you so much for being here. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.