Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous. This is episode number 319. And we have the wonderful Kym Cousins back on the show today.

Kym Cousins [0:09]
Hi, this is Kym Cousins. You’re listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:16]
Well I can’t wait to have another conversation with Kym. Today, we will be talking about “How To Sell Based On Your Personality Type”. And Kym is a professionally qualified personal and business coach. She is a certified Myers Briggs practitioner and the author of “Selling with Heart”. Kym is best known for her passion and enabling her client’s personal and business success through developing their confidence and skills in the area of sales, marketing, communication, and leadership. And I just love the first conversation I had with Kym where we talked about “Selling Is All About Helping People”. And today we are going to go deep on personality types. In case we have not yet met. I am Christine Schlonski, the host of Heart Sells! Podcast, where I talk with inspirational successful heart-centered entrepreneurs and business leaders about how they have built a wildly successful business and in many, many cases had to overcome their own challenges in selling their products and services.

Christine Schlonski [1:25]
Some of my amazing guests are Ian Altman, Natalie Ledwell Kate Erickson, Anthony Iannarino, Susie Carter, and also John Lee Dumas and Bob Burg. Before we dive in this episode is brought to you by Heart Sells! Academy, where we support heart-centered ambitious entrepreneurs who love what they do, but who just don’t feel great when it comes to selling their products and services. And we help them to step up in their sales game so they can sell with ease, grace, and confidence. While being authentic, so at the end of the day, they can impact more people and make their own dreams come true. So if this feels aligned, and if this feels like you’d like to have some support, hop on over to christineschlonski.com. Check us out and write an email to team@christineschlonski.com to have a chat. Let’s dive into the wonderful episode with Kym Cousins and see what amazing content she’s gonna share today. Well, I am so excited. You are back on the show today. Kym, welcome.

Kym Cousins [2:37]
Thanks for having me back.

Christine Schlonski [2:39]
Yeah, I loved our first episode, you know, talking about an introvert, extrovert, how that works, how people think and react, especially in a sales conversation. It’s so important because it really, you know, is a factor that helps you to win, to help the other person or that helps you to help them to run away because they don’t feel understood. So can we go a little bit deeper into sales conversations under the viewpoint of introvert-extrovert, how people react or what they need to feel good in a conversation? And if you’re not aware of how an introvert thinks or feels and how an extrovert thinks or feels we can screw that up a little bit. So just to be in that confident position, where you know, you’re the expert, you know, you have something amazing you could help them with talking to them in a way that feels right to them is the key. And obviously, people will have different perceptions, depending on that, you know, style of being either introvert or extrovert. And also, yeah, you’re a Myers Briggs, certified person, coach, right? So you can really go deep into those topics. I took the test. And I know how amazing and interesting and how it really was helpful. And it changed the way I thought, especially about introvert-extrovert. I remember that so clearly. But you are the pro on that one, you’re certified. So I want to let you talk so that people can understand that concept. So much better.

Kym Cousins [4:25]
Yeah, thanks. I think it was a really pivotal moment for me as I took the test many years ago and didn’t think much of it. About five or so years ago, I had the opportunity to delve into the training, the practitioner training and become certified. And from that, it made me feel so much more comfortable with being a quiet person because I am an introvert. But I came home after I had finished the training and I said to my husband, so what are you and I said I’m an introvert and he said to me, no way. He says, what do you mean? You’re an introvert but you know, you talk to people all day and you present to people in your own training. And I said, yes, I can be an extrovert all day long. But if you noticed at night, I like to take myself away and spend time alone to recharge my energy. He said, oh, I thought you just didn’t want to sit with me. I said, no, no, I just need quiet time. Sorry. So I said. So there it is.

Kym Cousins [5:28]
When you think about Myers Briggs and the introvert-extrovert and the other parts of the personality types that it goes into, we all have a natural way that feels comfortable, and a natural personality style that’s comfortable to us. And it’s the way we’re born. The thing is, we can develop behaviors that support us with what we want to do during our life. So I don’t remember thinking I was a quiet kid. But I do remember knowing that I needed to spend time alone. So how do I relate that to sales? Everyone thinks of a salesperson as an extrovert who just talks and talks and talks and everyone thinks a salesperson needs the gift of the gab and, and what have you but sometimes they can miss a real connection with their clients because they don’t take the time may not take the time to listen. Now, I don’t want to pigeonhole people and say that extroverts always do this, or introverts always do that.

Kym Cousins [6:29]
Everybody does things very, very differently. But there are patterns or trends that you tend to see. And that’s why we were able to come up with personality types for Myers Briggs. But when an extrovert may be dealing, you know, having a sales conversation with an introvert customer, they run the risk of the customer not at all turning off because the extrovert is talking too much, and the customer turns off, and then when it comes time to try to finalize the sale, the customer says no, thank you, because I’ve already turned off, or they may not invite you back for the next meeting or whatever it might be, then the reverse can be true as well that an introvert salesperson may frustrate an extroverted customer where the customer says just tell me the details, and we’ll make a decision. So from a sales perspective, I really like to think about what if you recognize people who like to talk a lot, and you can recognize people who don’t, or those who like things in writing, you’ve got to learn to balance and you’ve got to prepare for both.

Kym Cousins [7:37]
So knowing that I’m an introvert, knowing that I like to send a follow-up email with a written proposal, I need to understand that if my customer is an extrovert, I need to follow that up with a phone call. But I have the written information to prepare me for that conversation. And then the reverse is true that extroverts might say, I just want to deal with the customer on the phone. But the customer said, No, no, no, please send me the details in writing, I need to show it to my colleagues or whatever the process might be for them to make a decision. So introverts and extroverts don’t have to be completely at other ends of the scale, they can be quite centered, or they can have qualities from both. And that’s really the best place to be when you are having consults conversations with clients that way, you can’t say Excuse me, Mr. client, Mrs. Quiet. Please tell me if you’re an introvert or an extrovert. So I can adjust my sales conversation to make you, you don’t have that opportunity. So you have to prepare for both. And you have to balance your own approach so that you can engage with the customer in either part of the spectrum.

Christine Schlonski [8:55]
Yeah, perfect. I think it’s so valuable once I understand the concept because the energy is a different one on the phone as well. Right? How deep you listen, and how long you’re holding the silence and not say something. So you’ll give the other person the space to think it through. Right? The worst thing people can do is like, you know, jumping in with whatever, just they say something so there is no silence. I think as a salesperson holding the space, being open to not speaking. That is the moment when the other person can think something through and when you just ask, well, do you want to move a hat, and then you don’t even take a breath and you keep talking? The person doesn’t even have time to sit with it. Especially when they’re introverts, they need a little bit longer with their answer, which is totally fine if you’re prepared.

Kym Cousins [9:56]
I think the other thing you could be prepared for which is another component of looking at Myers Briggs personality types is whether your customer makes decisions about things that or based on thinking or feeling. And you need to have a conversation with your customer and try and recognize some of the words that they say so that you can start to match them as well. So in the instance you just described, which is asking the question about whether they’d like to go ahead, you often say, what do you think about that? Or, what do you feel about that, and whether you say one or the other can, and it may be a disconnect with a customer if you’re saying the wrong one of those if you could recognize early in the conversation, that they’re talking about emotions, or I feel that this is a good fit for me, or I don’t feel it’s going to be right, or they say things like, I think this could be good for me.

Kym Cousins [10:59]
That’s where you can start to match and mirror their style of conversation, which gives you a deeper connection. And fundamentally, it builds a more of a bit of foundation of trust, if the cup if the client is really feeling natural, naturally met conversation and you know that matching and mirroring really makes a big difference. And I think it’d be great if we were always faced to face with our clients. pets, we used to be months ago, maybe we do not face to face, as often as we used to be face to face, you can often use a lot of matching and mirroring. Visually, we may not have that at our disposal, right now, we may be conducting a lot more business on the phone, or of course via zoom or what have you. So really listening for the type of language your customer uses so that you can use that language can help match their personality type as well. And if they think you’re well-matched, they feel a lot more comfortable doing business with you. Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [12:07]
So what kind of like, what challenges have your customers mostly?

Kym Cousins [12:15]
Most of the people that come to work with me are those who say, I can’t sell, I don’t like selling, I fear selling, or I just don’t want to be a pushy salesperson. But I know I need to do something. Because I know usually they’re business owners, small businesses, a lot of women entrepreneurs, who want to supplement the family income, or just recently, of course, there are people that haven’t had a job anymore, that started to create their own business. So I have one, a lovely woman that I’ve been working with who came to me, she said, I can’t pick up the phone, I don’t know what to say. And I and she said once I get in front of them, personally, I’m absolutely fine. But making that first approach, she just didn’t know what to say.

Kym Cousins [13:03]
So we did a lot of work around her belief in what it is she has to offer, and the type of products proper service, she has appealed to families. But to expand her business, she needed to position that service to a big shopping mall in a way that to be able to open up a center in the shopping mall, so she could speak to families and children and all of her ultimate clients. But positioning that to a big business really daunted her. So we had to flip what she could do for the business and what her service could do to help them. And once we’ve got that down, and she understood, you know what it is that her client would get from working with her, she felt a lot more confident. And that’s just one example of twisting the way you’re positioning your product. Because a lot of people think about it, it’s all about selling, what the value you have. But we work on talking about the value that the customer you know, achieves, or gets from working with you not so all about you, it’s all about them and what they are what the outcomes they receive.

Christine Schlonski [14:19]
Totally, I always talk about the value of the perceived value. Because you know, you value your services in a different way than your customers because for you it’s easy, that’s your thing, you hopefully do something where you are in the zone of genius and your brilliance. So obviously for you, it’s like a piece of cake, and for someone else that might be like climbing Mount Everest. So you need to understand the value you see and the value your customer sees, and then adjust accordingly.

Kym Cousins [14:53]
One of the things that I talk a lot about is or I say a lot to people I work with is always thinking about, so what, for example, I have a client who has a printing business, and he has bought some, invested in some really big printing machines that could do all these really cool things. And I said I’m your customer now. And I’m going to say, so what I really don’t care what machines you have, and all the cool things your machine can do. All I’m interested in is if I come to you for printing, I want to know how that is going to help me market my business or provide resources to my clients or what have you. So you’ve got to put your mind into that what your customer gets from your brand new printing machine.

Kym Cousins [15:41]
And for a lot of people, they haven’t thought of it that way. Because I find that people are now needing help to learn how to sell because they may not have had to do as much of it before that because a business has many businesses have had a downturn, then business owners, in particular, are having to reach out proactively. Whereas perhaps they’ve had such a great business in the past that they’ve had lots of leads coming to them. But, they now have to think about maximizing and leverage every single interaction and every single phone call that they get in their business. But they say oh, I don’t want to sell, I don’t want to be a salesperson. So we really need to look at, you know, as we discussed in our last podcast was the service mindset? And how that guy who has the printing machine, how does he helped his customer? Market themselves better? By having great printed materials, just changing the mindset into effect? Often I say just, it’s not selling, okay, just don’t even think of the word selling. Think of service, think of support, think of helping?

Christine Schlonski [16:52]
Yeah, totally. And that that shifts also your energy, that shifts the way you see sales. And you know, it makes a fear kind of go away. Like who is fearful of helping someone, I haven’t met the person that would say, Well, you know, I’m too afraid to help you. If they are brilliant, and whatever they do,

Kym Cousins [17:16]
Something that someone said to me the other day about, you know, we’re all put on this earth to help each other. We’re all, we are the human race is put on this earth to help each other’s life. In a business, we help out, we’re here to help our clients do something, be something, achieve more, do more. And so you’re absolutely right. When you, when you change that mindset around fear. What are you really fearful of? A lot of people are fearful of rejection. Rejecting what? They’re rejecting the offer that you’ve given them, and they’re rejecting it because they don’t see the value in it. Now is that because you haven’t been able to position that value well enough, that’s possible. They may be rejected because it’s really just not the right thing for them.

Christine Schlonski [18:04]
I just love that you brought up the rejection. My next question was supposed to be how do you deal with rejection, especially as an introvert, right? So when somebody says no to your services, or to your products, your offer how do you best deal with it so that you still leave the conversation with a win-win feeling?

Kym Cousins [18:31]
Yeah, I think there are a few ways that you can look at it. Number one, you’ve got to frame you reframe of thinking it’s they’re not rejecting you personally, how could they reject you? They don’t really know you at this point. They’re rejecting either the offer, or they’re rejecting the notion that it’s something of value to them. And I think there is there are questions to ask them, they can simply say no. There are ways of asking or thinking, what are they saying no to? And if they’re saying no to? They don’t have the funds right now, the timing is not right. Or if you’re able to find that out from them. There are ways of it saying well, look, I’d really like to stay in touch with you. We still have resources that we have available on our website, all those sorts of good things where they can still maintain contact with you because many people need to really know you a lot better before they even decide to work with you.

Kym Cousins [19:35]
They may need to see, see you on social media, they may need to listen to your podcasts, they may need to really have time to think about whether it’s working for them. And I know myself, I’ve said no. To offers, 18 months later I’ve, it’s the right time. And then I’ve gone back and said now’s the right time, and the person says oh, I thought I’d lost you. I said no, no. I’ve been on your mailing list and, and I’ve seen you, your YouTubes. And I’ve been on the Facebook group or whatever it might be. Some people need longer. And typically introverts, I mean, 18 months is a long decision making time. But it’s also timing. And finances can be also a part of that as well. So the fear of rejection, I think the fear of rejection is easier to overcome. The biggest fear that I come across is people’s fear of making themselves look stupid because they don’t know what to say. And that’s what may come back to preparation and scripting. And scripts are not scripts, but conversation starters. And, and really understanding and believing in what it is you have to offer that they that it’s a value to them. Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [20:51]
So when you get a no as a salesperson, do you kind of finish the conversation at this point? Or do you, what do you do?

Kym Cousins [21:01]
I think it has a lot to do with what it is you’re selling? If it’s a simple consumer product, then no could be an absolute no.

Christine Schlonski [21:09]
Yeah.

Kym Cousins [21:10]
I think it’s it’s not a no, it’s not fantastic. I understand. That’s great. But I think it’s, you’ve got to ask them, if it’s okay to stay in contact with them, you’ve got to earn the right. I say this often, I said, please stay in contact with me. I’m really interested in what you have. It’s just, not for me. And if the customer says, look, it’s very rare that a customer is going to say, no, don’t contact me, go away. I don’t want to be pounded with any emails. I’ve never had a customer say that, to me personally. They can always unsubscribe later. But usually, they’re happy to stay in contact because people really, people have a positive intent. People do have a good heart unless you’re a psychopath. But stealing is of positive intent. And human interaction has a positive intention. And so staying in contact, and staying engaged is really fundamental to human nature. And so I think it’s really important that you continue to remain in contact with them.

Kym Cousins [22:17]
Yeah. And would you also ask why it’s a no at the moment?

Kym Cousins [22:23]
Correct? Yeah, absolutely. Why can be a really confronting word to some people? I think you’ve got to soften that a little and say, Would you mind? Can I ask you what’s happening for you right now? What do you feel about the offer? And if so, how? What are you thinking? Just say, Can you just help me understand your thinking behind that? And if you say, can you help me understand it means that the way they’ve said, No, we haven’t, you know, we’ve softened it out a little. And that’s where they start to explain that I need to speak to someone else in the business for the decision, or I need to think about finances, I need to think about timing. And it really opens the door. And it gives you an opportunity to ask for more detail around that.

Kym Cousins [23:17]
So for example, if it is a financial consideration, it gets a chance to talk about payment plans or you know, deferred payment or, or what have you. If it’s a case of having to speak to other people in the business to make the family or the business the decision, then it’s a chance to jump in and say, I’d love to help you take further information back to them to help with the decision. Can I hop on a call with you? Can I send them a video or whatever it might be? It just gives you an opportunity to maintain and broaden your spectrum of engagement with them. Complete rejection is very rare, or a complete no. If it is, that means you’ve come you’ve really not started the engagement very well. You’ve picked it’s not your ideal customer in the first place.

Kym Cousins [24:16]
Yeah, I really like that you brought that up. And it’s so true. Because if somebody says no, for me, it means not now, but what they also do they put like a protection wall in front of them. Right? Because it’s their decision and maybe they already know that sometimes, you know, they are weak in their decisions. And if you talk a little bit longer, they might say yes, so they fear that they’re gonna say yes. And what my experience is when you really bring down that wall, not by confronting them as you know why, but buy as you said, like reframe it and say, well, maybe can you please help me understand your thinking process or you are what you feel? Can you please share with me so I understand better, that is such a cool way for them to drop that protection wall and to have that open conversation where maybe something comes up that you can handle easily. Like, you know, it’s not a big deal like, Oh, well, we could work with a payment plan, but they didn’t dare to ask. So they said no to protect. And then if you stop right there, you will never find out what the challenge was.

Kym Cousins [25:28]
I think if you go back to what we first started talking about, which is introvert and extrovert if you want to know what an extrovert is thinking, an extrovert customer, you just listen. And you listen to them. If you want to know when an introvert is thinking or feeling, you have to ask the question. So if you don’t ask those follow-up questions, as you said, you will never know from an introvert, they’ll take away and they’re long, longer decision-making process, they may never come back to you, unless you ask the question. And same could be said about following them up a couple of days later and say, look, you could find them the next day or two days later and say, Look, I know that the other day, things weren’t right for you. I just thought, do you have any further questions for me? and engage that conversation? A little more? So for anybody listening? If you Yeah, if you’re thinking about why is this person not talking? You’ve got to ask questions. And I’m the same if I don’t just go out and tell people about myself all the time. I wait until someone asks me a question. Whereas an extrovert might talk about themselves all the time. That’s just a bit of a stereotype of introverts extroverts. But the other thing I thought about that, in asking for more detail behind that, that NO is can you help me understand what your thoughts are? Because I know this may not be right for you. But I’d like to understand your thoughts a little better so that I might be able to better position for other customers, or you may know somebody else that this is right, for. It might not be right for you, but it might be right for somebody else. And again, an introvert is not going to offer up that information as they get asked the question.

Christine Schlonski [27:18]
Yeah, totally. 100% I thank you so much. Last question, What does Heartt Sells! mean for you?

Kym Cousins [27:28]
It means being of service. It means connecting with values. And being completely authentic with your cells, cells interactions.

Christine Schlonski [27:43]
Love it. And yeah, I just want to invite people again, if you want more of these amazing tips, advice, trends, knowing what’s going on and what’s working in sales right now you need to get yourself into Kym’s VIP list, and the show notes, you’ll find all the links to connect with her amazing work, you’ll find the link to her wonderful book that you definitely want to check out if you like those episodes, “Selling with Heart”. It’s growing your business with authenticity and trust. And that is so so important, even more, important in today’s times than ever before. Thank you so so much, Kym, for sharing your wisdom with the listeners. It was such a pleasure having you. And yeah, all the best and tons of sales.

Kym Cousins [28:30]
Oh, thank you so much. And the same for you and everybody listening.

Christine Schlonski [28:35]
I just love the insights that Kym shared with the introvert-extrovert, how people love to make decisions, the different ways they do it, and how important it is that you respect the way they want to make decisions. And you facilitate the decision making, which will mean you have the opportunity to have more impact because then you have the opportunity to sell if it feels aligned to them. So hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the podcast tab and check out this episode with the show notes, the transcripts all the resources, and all the links to Kym are just one click away by hopping over to christineschlonski.com and finding the podcast tab. In the podcast tab in the resource section. Obviously, you have Kym’s amazing free gift, you have a link to her book “Selling with Heart” and also you have a link to a very special experience where you get 40 strategies that will help you fill your pipeline with amazing clients with the Heart-Centered Lead Generation Summit Experience. Thank you so much for having been here. Thank you so much for tuning in. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this world and I’m saying bye for now.