Gabe Arnold is the founder and Chief Pencil Sharpener at CopywriterToday.net, a subscription-based article writing service.
In his early 20s, Gabe saw his construction business hit by the downturn in the real estate market to the tune of a $1 million bankruptcy.
- Could not recommend it enough!by Mindful Mel from United States
Listening to Heart Sells Podcast has felt like meeting a soulmate! That initial excitement of knowing this is exactly what you’ve been looking for, the peace of feeling completely understood and that burst of energy from knowing that anything is possible! Every episode has been chock full of awesome nuggets and beautiful reminders. The combination of incredibly successful powerhouses sharing their journey, practical and applicable tools and Christine’s heartfelt and authentic approach and energy, is an incredible gift for all heart-centered entrepreneurs!
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Loved the interview! Dondi has a great way of reminding us that we get to choose the lesson in our experiences.
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I just started listening to Christine's podcast and the content is amazing! Can't wait for the next episdoe.
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Love this podcast! The lifeblood of any business is sales and Christine does an amazing job of making sales something you'll fall in love with instead of dread. These podcasts are short and get staright to the point, filling you with both the knowledge and motivation to go out and bring in lots more money to your business by selling from your heart. If you want to bury the notion that sales is sleazy or avoid "gurus" who make sales sleazy and instead learn to how to sell in a way that is heart-centered, easy, win-win, and non-pushy, then look no further... you have found the right podcast!
- Mindset Makes The Differenceby JanineFQ from United States
Great show about creating a business with heart. If you think it, you can achieve it and Christine show you how to use your heart and mind to find success. I'll listen again.
- Loved the JLD Interviewby Thehighenergygirl from United States
Wow, what a great interview with JLD. Christine your energy is great and I look forward to listening to your other episodes. Well done! BTW I love the title so much!
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... and your mindset will take it from there. Yogi Berra once said "90% of the game is half mental." With your heart and mind aligned (like planets) you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish. Subsribe, listen and start selling!
- Afraid to sell? Listen here!by MizzBeeMe from United States
These are wonderful interviews with successful entrepreneurs, (including the Queen of Sales Mindset, host Christine)......who share how they began, what their difficulties were, and the sales mindsets & strategies they used to get to their top. If you've ever had that icky feeling when it come to 'selling' you or your stuff....get some great inspiration here of not only how to sell, but how to think.
- Feeling P.O.W.E.R. ful!by The Variety Artist from United States
Just listened to ep 5. Love the POWER formula. Christine explains it clearly and makes it simple for me to understand. Great podcast!
- Let’s get better at selling!by Joeb29 from United States
Let’s be honest, we can ALL be better at selling. I know I can, and I’ve been studying selling for years! Have a listen if you want to start getting better. I’d recommend it!
- Inspirational!by CCarroll1 from United States
Christine is a joy to listen to and learn from! I am so glad she now has a podcast so I can keep learning from her wisdom on sales, money, mindset, business and more. Great information!
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Wonderful energy and such valuable insight! Thank you, Christine!
- Love this podcast!by Funky Sarica from United States
Christine does such an incredible job of helping her listeners to find their way with selling with love, from the heart. Her guests offer so much value—looking forward to more interviews!
- Beautifl Showby Duffash from United States
Christine has a wonderful energy. She is a great coach and teacher. I love how she teaches tools for shifting our mindset into creating habits and behaviors that build our success.
- Christine is Great!by horsegirldsi from United States
Have gotten a lot of value out of the first episodes. Christine is a great host!
- We need more of this...by Stu Schaefer from United States
I'm an entrepreneur and I sell every day of my life. It's easy to neglect the heart side of things, but I think it's important to balance that since we're all humans on the same team. Christine does a great job providing really valuable insights!
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Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Free Sample Article
3 Key Points:
- If you want to be super successful in sales, all you have to do is invest in your goodwill bank account every day
- It’s definitely time to learn sales, it’s just as much a time to show up and serve and create a ton of value because at the right time that will come back to you.
- When you walk the talk, and you are who you are, and you’re authentic and you show up and invest and invest in that goodwill bank account, then eventually people will approach and ask for your help.
[4:18] I’ve surrounded myself with people that are a little farther down the road and can say, oh, like, here’s what’s going to happen or here’s what you need to watch for, or this is a normal business cycle.
[5:09] It’s a lot of pain and it’s hard to navigate but once you step back from it, and you choose learning, you know, a learning perspective, and like, what, what gift was I given here today? And what can I learn from it, then everything becomes valuable.
[7:00] Being appreciative of all the lessons and learning every day and not getting wound up about what other people tell you and finding the positive and just learning from what happens.
[9:17] If you really want to be successful in sales, there’s obviously a lot of like principled approaches and strategies and things that you need to use that you can learn from people you can learn sales from.
[10:31] First impression in that first interaction of us building the relationship is what builds our goodwill bank account.
[11:31] Somebody has to still show the way and remind people to stay empowered, and to make good choices and decisions for themselves.
[19:45] Reciprocity is doing something great that I want to be a part of and support and I’ll just support you because I want to help you.
[23:27] The key to content marketing is consistency, just consistently showing up and sharing something with your audience.
For FULL Transcript click here:
Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous. This is episode number 285 with the amazing Chief Pencil Sharpener, Gabe Arnold.
Gabe Arnold [0:11]
Hi, this is Gabe Arnold. You’re listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.
Christine Schlonski [0:16]
I’m so looking forward to this conversation with Gabe, you might not be aware of this. But Gabe was also on The Heart Centered Lead Generation Summit sharing his expertise. And it was such an amazing presentation that I asked him to come back and share more of his wisdom with the Heart Sells! Podcast Community. So here he is, today, we will be talking about “How To Invest Into Your Audience For Massive Results”. Also, I hope you will be inspired by Gabe’s story. In his early 20s. Gabe saw his construction business hit by the downturn in the real estate market and basically failed for a 1 Million Dollar bankruptcy. And he is back he managed to get back on his feet. He is now the Founder and Chief Pencil Sharpener and copywritertoday, a subscription-based article writing service. And he has so many golden nuggets were asked to share that I can’t wait to dive in. So let’s get started. Well, I am so super pumped to have you on the show today. Gabe, welcome.
Gabe Arnold [1:25]
Thank you so much as always good to hang out and chat with you.
Christine Schlonski [1:28]
Yeah, I just loved the content you provided for The Heart Centered Lead Generation Summit. And I know that everybody listening back then was just in awe was what you shared, because it was such amazing advice. And I’m so excited to get more great ideas and content out of you for our audience today. But what I want to do first is because you had such an interesting business life, so to speak, and during these rather challenging times. You had them in your early 20s when you saw your construction business kind of going downhill. And you really picked yourself up and created this wonderful company. So I would love for you to just talk a little bit about the challenge and what you did to inspire people to see that when they have the right idea at the right time, and they know how to sell, life will be so much easier.
Gabe Arnold [2:28]
Yeah, I think I think it’s really interesting to have been, I’ve been an entrepreneur since I was 16. So 22 years this year, and probably for them, but like officially, I was taking checks at 16. So that’s when I can.
Christine Schlonski [2:44]
Well, you are probably born an entrepreneur.
Gabe Arnold [2:48]
But so a couple of decades in and I’m just still learning I always try to just be a learner and not, not pretend like I know everything because I don’t by any stretch of the imagination, but just learning as I’m going here, I’m always paying attention and watching for mental models that help you know me with success and help my team and those that I, you know, coach and support. And then I’m also trying to find, you know, surround myself with people who are a little foot farther down the road have a little bit more experience and can maybe, you know, share a better way with me. And when you were talking kind of like my early early adversity and challenges, it actually reminded me of something that Brian Kurtz said to me a few weeks ago, and I know he was in on the summit too if I recall.
Christine Schlonski [3:36]
Gabe Arnold [3:37]
And he said, he just off the cuff said, Oh, well, you know, this is the fourth big downturn that I’ve, you know, been through in my business, you know, in my entrepreneurial career, and like, here’s the things you need to do and like he gave some great advice about just how to continue and that just stuck out to me because it’s like, I’ve gone through 2 big, you know, downturns and better business or, and, and I honestly feel like the third or fourth one won’t really matter at all to me. And not in the sense of like it won’t create it won’t destabilize me that’s a more clear way to say it. And the only reason that I’ve been able to do that is because I’ve surrounded myself with people that are a little farther down the road and can say, oh, like, here’s what’s going to happen or here’s what you need to watch for, or this is a normal business cycle.
Gabe Arnold [4:26]
And the first time you go through something really hard in business and you face a lot of adversity and I lost literally everything in my whole life, not just my business, but I lost everything. Got divorced, my best friend died, my grandpa died, and I went bankrupt. And I was facing some charges that fortunately got dropped because when I got stuck for a quarter-million dollars from my clients than my subcontractors and the people working for me, thought that I did it intentionally and so they were all wound up but I cleared that up and said no like this is what happened. That was unfortunate, but this is what happened. And so going through that level of diversity for the first time, you’re really not sure what to do. And like, it’s a lot of pain and it’s hard to navigate.
Gabe Arnold [5:12]
But once you step back from it, and you choose to learn, you know, a learning perspective, and like, what, what gift was I given here today? And what can I learn from it, then everything becomes valuable? And when things are valuable, I think things get a little bit easier, perspective wise. And so that was, you know, 2007, 2008 because I got hit early in the housing market crash here in the States. And I know, I know, there was a ripple effect around the world from that as well. Now, you know, going through COVID, it was kind of interesting, and this isn’t, this isn’t like, this is just a pattern recognition for me. So going through the housing market crash, I started studying like, Okay, what economic cycles happen? What things typically happen? And basically every, you know, 8 to 12 years, we have a big economic reset and something triggers it. But it’s, in my opinion, a healthy reset for the economy.
Gabe Arnold [6:12]
And so 18 months before COVID, I was predicting and, you know, recession to my audience, to my team, everything and I said, this is going to happen relatively soon. And when it happened, I’m just grateful that I was able to learn from the first round that I went through because we were prepared and we made some pivots and adjustments, but none of this has been shocking at all to me, which I’m grateful for. And secondly, interestingly enough, what you never can tell the future but now we’re halfway through it, or why don’t halfway through this year at least. It’s been an incredibly profitable and incredibly successful year and we’re busier than ever. And I think that comes from just you know, being appreciating all the lessons and learning every day and not getting wound up about what other people tell you and not, you know, trying to not telling yourself you have to feel a certain way about something, but finding the positive and just learning from what happens.
Christine Schlonski [7:17]
Thank you so much for sharing and you said something. Lots of stuff but once that just stood out was you choose to.
Gabe Arnold [7:25]
Christine Schlonski [7:26]
And I think that’s really important. So, you know, like, for me as an entrepreneur, like this is like the first downturn kind of thing, but I have to say that I’m like, stronger than I was ever before. Because so many people now realize they have to figure out their sales game.
Gabe Arnold [7:45]
Christine Schlonski [7:46]
Right. Well, if you don’t do it now, like when will you do it? Like, do it before you go downhill with your company, right really give you gifts to the world now. And I just love that you shared like, be prepared. So what can people do now that experience challenges? What do they need to look out for? So that they are better off when you know, the next challenge knocks on the door?
Gabe Arnold [8:13]
Yeah, well, I think I mean, I think if they’re listening to your podcast, and even if they just listen to the name of it, then they will be successful. And I’ll dig into that. But I was telling, and I’ll explain that in a second. Yeah, I was telling somebody the other day, a new client, who I brought on to coach and help them scale their agency because they’re just starting out and they want to grow a large organization like that. I’m grateful I get to be a part of. And I said, I said, I don’t mean this arrogantly, but I want to give you an example. And I said, basically, I can click a button or make a post and make money. And I can, you know, I sold a podcasting program and did a big launch earlier this year, and it was a huge success. And if I put something out there today, I could, I can sell things. very quickly, and I said the reason that is so not saying that, like I said to be prideful, arrogant, but I want to point out the reason that I can do that is that I’ve heavily invested in my audience for the last at least three or four years, probably a lot longer, but very focused in the last three or four years.
Gabe Arnold [9:15]
And so if you really want to be successful in sales, there’s obviously a lot of like principled approaches and strategies and things that you need to use that you can learn from Christine and I mean, people like me, and there’s a lot of people you can learn sales from right? All of us are here to serve and help you. But if you really understand the great sales and depth of sales potential comes from a heart of service, then everything is easy because if I show up, if you know for seeing you asked me like, oh, how would you, you know, how would you solve this problem, and I really treat you just like I treat my older sister who I love and care about, and I treat you the same way because I love and care about you too, as another you know, person that I get to interact with, you can tell that, you can tell that immediately as the way I talk, the way I write, the way I show up.
Gabe Arnold [10:09]
And, and the great news is that you will either be comfortable and ready to buy from me now, what I mean you know, some there’s the now is the what 5% or something and then the soon is the next percentage, and then the later is the rest, right? You may buy now, or you may buy in a little bit, or you might buy it much later. But that first impression in that first interaction of us building the relationship is what builds my goodwill bank account. And if you want to be super successful in sales, all you have to do is invest in your goodwill bank account every day. That’s like the foundation for me that you do have to understand how to present and sell and there are things there are skills you need to have but what the skills are a component and then how you show up is a big piece of it. So it’s definitely time to learn sales. It’s just as much a time to show up and serve and create a ton of value because at the right time that will come back to you.
Christine Schlonski [11:08]
Yeah, I so, so agree like one of the biggest, while let’s see, like coaching components over the last month was really to remind my clients, that they are the leaders, they are amazing that they are powerful that they get to decide, and that it’s now really time even though nobody knows where this is going to end up. Somebody has to still show the way and remind people to stay empowered, and to make good choices and decisions for themselves.
Gabe Arnold [11:43]
Christine Schlonski [11:44]
So I just love that and you know, I said that before, but you are The Chief Pencil Sharpener. And it’s, I always see do I see that sharpened pencil and I see that also, you know, as a weapon because every word you write the set, a sharpened pencil that sits correctly, that attracts that wonderful client or soulmate client, as I call them perfect client, dream client, whatever you want to call them is so important. And that is also a tool that you use to create money. You can just put out that blog post because you have learned the art of writing the art to connect to people you don’t even see right in a sales conversation. You see the person you hear the person, but the person connects with you and your content way before. So before we go into that and what people you know what kind of level of knowledge they need to have to make life a little bit easier. I would just love to know what was the very, very first thing that you ever sold in your life.
Gabe Arnold [12:57]
The first one I remember I probably sold other stuff too. But as the first thing I remember is, I sold I was out I was here I was about probably seven or eight years old. Maybe nine not it wasn’t 10 yet, and I was out walking on my landlord’s property because we just rented. We rented a home where we lived as walking out on these paths through the forest, and my landlord and his daughter, who his daughter was probably like, my age now like, you know, 35 or 40, or something like that. And I was, I had caught this snake and killed this black dead, this big black snake that was like four feet tall, like as tall as me. Sorry. But anyway, I just killed it. And I was very proud walking down the path of it and I ran into my landlord and his daughter, and she said, she said, hey, you know, could you make a snakeskin belt out of that for me? Like, yeah, she’s like, how much would it cost me? And I think I think it was, I think I said 40 bucks, 20 bucks or 40 bucks, I don’t remember, whatever. It was a lot of money to me back then. And she’s like, Alright, sure. She’s like, I’ll, I’ll be back in two weeks, and I’ll come to pick it up from you.
Christine Schlonski [14:16]
Gabe Arnold [14:19]
As a kid, and so I made what hopefully was not a horrifically awful snakeskin belt, and she paid me and I’m sure she never ever wore it. Because nobody in their right mind would. But that is one of the first things that I remember selling and I remember the thrill of getting paid and like closing the deal and getting the commitment. I don’t remember she paid me that or when she picked it up. I can’t remember but I knew I had, you know, I knew I had the signature so to speak on the deal. And even talking about it now like that’s what I love closing deals with more than anything else in the business.
Christine Schlonski [14:58]
Yeah, yeah, you get this huge smile on your face. I just love that. So, obviously this, I’m not into killing animals or using their skin. But I’m not a big fan of snakes either. Like, they need to really be far away from me, like as far as they can. But I love that business idea. So you were just having an, you know, you listened.
Gabe Arnold [15:26]
Christine Schlonski [15:27]
Right. You saw the interest. You know, you could have said yeah, well or you could have had an excuse or whatever. So you made it happen. And you’ve got paid and yeah, I totally share that when someone says yes to, to what you have to offer. This is an amazing feeling. And I love that you still remember how it felt? And that it was such an amazing emotion that you get triggered, right? Like how can I serve more like helping people to make their dreams come true in exchange they helped me to make my dreams come true. And all of a sudden here we are creating a better world. Hopefully without snakes or snakeskin belts. So, but you know, just from the concept itself, it just fascinates me over and over again. What can people come up with? And what are they getting paid for and whose day per week or life they change for whatever they do?
Gabe Arnold [16:30]
Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely when you realize that everybody has a problem, you know, that they need to solve and you start to become more creative and realize, Oh, I, you know, I have the resources to solve that. Or I can figure out how to solve that or I have an existing resource or skill set. Then the world opens up a lot and you go, Oh, you know, they could use my help and they could use my help. And what’s great is when people when you walk the talk, and you are who you are, and you’re authentic and you show up and invest and invest in that goodwill bank account, then eventually people will go, oh, Christine, don’t you like to coach on sales? And don’t you, you know, teach these things? Could you help me, that’s, that’s like the effortless sale because you’ve put all the effort in ahead of time, because they already know who you are, and you’ve already invested in your audience.
Gabe Arnold [17:20]
And those are, those are the really fun ones. And then, you know, the other parts of sales are proactively reaching out and saying, Hey, I see you’re in the middle of this, and this is something I offer and help. And I do both equally. You know, and, and that’s what, you know, builds a business and that’s like you said, that’s how you make the world a better place. Unfortunately, I’m a little older and more mature. I’m definitely like you mentioned I’m not into killing animals and not into doing that stuff anymore, but I still got my first sale that way.
Christine Schlonski [17:52]
Thank you. Thank you for sharing it. Right. It’s so it’s so valuable. And yeah, I just love hearing those stories. And, and also like seeing how you evolve as a human, right? I’m always amazed that you know, when you take some time and you look back and where you were like a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago as a kid, what has happened1? And what has happened due to the decisions that you made? So how can people start to create that goodwill bank account? Somebody might just hear that term for the very first time in their life? So let us know how to open up this account?
Gabe Arnold [18:30]
Yeah, so I got that. I really learned that term on another podcast, which obviously, since you’re listening to this podcast, you’re very wise and intelligent. So I’m glad everybody’s listening. But honestly, I’ve found my biggest and best ideas, listening to podcasts, because I think these are just such valuable conversations. And I first heard that term on Founders Magazines Podcast, and there was a guy on there, which I need to, I need to look up his name so I can quote him correctly, but he did a billion-dollar launch. So if you look up the founder podcast and lookup billion-dollar launches, he did a billion dollars in a day, I think or in seven days, and it’s a super short period.
Gabe Arnold [19:12]
And he said, the way that I did that he said five years before I was gonna do this launch, I started going out and just serving and helping people and investing knowing that the right people would be willing to support me. When, when I needed help. And so, reciprocity is you know, the goodwill bank account. And reciprocity is not a saying, hey, Christine, I’m going to help you today, but you need to help me tomorrow. That’s just that’s bartering or exchange, or that’s just commerce, right? That’s transactional. Reciprocity is man, I see you’re doing something great that I want to be a part of and support and I’ll just support you because I want to help you. And then down the road, you may voluntarily come back and say, hey, I see you’re doing something and help you with that. Or if we have a great relationship, I do and I have invested, I do have the right to say, hey, would you mind giving me a review on this or helping me out with something, and it will naturally flow because it’s not contrived, turns out transactional relationship.
Gabe Arnold [20:13]
And so with, with your goodwill bank account, it’s really showing up and making the world that you want to live in. And choosing to do that. And so I want to live in a world where people are kind, but they’re direct and upfront and honest. So that’s how I operate. And I want to live in a world where if I launch a new idea, I not only have clients, then prospects have become, you know, clients and support me in the launch, but were, my friends just support me just because they’re my friends. And so those are just a couple examples, but that’s what I want to live in. So that’s how I show up and that’s how I operate. And when you invest like that, then you create goodwill. And all of that comes back to us at the right time.
Gabe Arnold [21:02]
So it’s, there’s not a straight like two plus two formula. But it’s more of the heart attitude of just saying, you know, how can I serve and show up? And how can I make your life a little better whoever you’re interacting with, and make you feel better today, and then the rest of the workout, and it does work out and it’s the riches are unlimited in your lifetime, not just monetary. That’s it. everybody hears when they do that, but it’s really unlimited when you approach things that way. So that’s, that’s what to me, it means to invest in your goodwill bank account, and it pays off very well. It’s a much better way to live than always taking.
Christine Schlonski [21:40]
Yeah, yeah, it feels so aligned and inflow. And yeah, I love creating relationships. And I love having people like you on the podcast because it’s such an inspiration. And oftentimes society tells us we need to be like in a certain way or you know, we all know these sales movies that we are watching and we think like, whoa. And then on the other hand, like, it’s fascinating how people can get rich, so fast. And on the other hand, it’s like we see, well, that’s not our way. So we block off a lot of great ideas that are just not executed in a way that where people come from the heart where they really care where it’s more than a transaction, like, get it done, get the money, and you know, off we go. And I love that. And I also love what you have created with your company, to really make sure you, you get to support people in the right way with the right voice, and your amazing gift that you are bringing as a free sample article. I’m so grateful for that. So tell us about it. And, you know, we’ll have a link in the show notes. But what will people get when they actually get the free sample article?
Gabe Arnold [22:55]
Yeah, so copywritertoday.net is a company I started in 2014, after listening to a podcast episode about something else that inspired me. But, uh, so we created that service because I, you know, I realized after building thousands of websites over the years that people could have a great asset like a website or their LinkedIn profile, or even a Facebook page. And they didn’t have the ability or the time or skill, you know, to put out great content that tells their story. And the key to content marketing is consistency. Yes, you do need to have high-quality stories. Yes, you do need to have calls to action, you do need to have all these components. But in my opinion and experience, those are actually secondary to just consistently showing up and sharing something with your audience.
Gabe Arnold [23:46]
And so we created copywritertoday to help entrepreneurs you know, and salespeople and coaches and consultants all around the world, consistently speak to their audience through blog posts and email marketing that they want to send out. So if you go to copywritertoday.net we’ll give you a free sample article, you can see how the service works. You can talk to and interact with our team through that process, you can get to know who we are. And that way, you just get a free article that’s, you know, shows you kind of what it’s like. And you can use that for whatever you’d like. And obviously, if it’s a great fit, we’d love to do more for you. And we can talk about that as well.
Christine Schlonski [24:18]
Awesome. Oh, thank you so, so much. I have so many more questions, but I really would love to know, in our next interview, like what are the first steps somebody can take to figure out if, you know, their content is kind of hitting the mark, like what needs to be in a great article? So it makes sense it’s appealing to people and also the call to action is not missing. But for the day. Our time is up and I thank you so so much for sharing your story. What an inspiration and I can’t wait to hear from the listeners. What are they taking away? And yeah, I’m really looking forward to having you back very soon.
Gabe Arnold [24:56]
Awesome. Thank you so much.
Christine Schlonski [24:58]
I totally agree with Gabe when he said, it will all come back to you. And when I was an exchange student in the US, my host mom always used to say, what goes around comes around, back then I did not really get that. All right, I was still in high school. But with every year that passes, I get more and more of that amazing idea. The more you give, the more you will receive. So opening up in our businesses for serving and coming from that place of law for really caring about our customers, our customers will care about us. And I usually don’t call them customers, I call them soulmate clients. But that is another story and I’ve already done a podcast on it, variety Friday, so you want to check that out too. And while you are listening right now I’m inviting you to hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the podcast tab and the episode with Gabe. Get into the resource section to get your free gift. As well as having all the links available that connect you to Gabe, I highly recommend you check him out and get an understanding of the amazing work he does.
Christine Schlonski [26:10]
Once you’re over there, sign up for The Empowerment Notes. That’s empowerment right into your inbox. And if you want to if you feel like you need to do something on lead generation, there is The Experience on christineschlonski.com, where you can actually experience The Heart Centered Lead Generation Summit yourself. By signing up, it’s for free. So hop on over to christineschlonski.com and learn from the 40 amazing teachers on The Heart Centered Lead Generation Summit, as well as listening to all the podcast guests. So there’s a ton of content waiting for you, helping you to feel amazing when you are selling to your soulmate clients and making life and business so much more fun. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.
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