Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous! This is episode number 271 and the amazing Peter Sandeen is back on the show today.

Peter Sandeen [0:09]
Hi, this is Peter Sandeen. You’re listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:15]
Well, I am so super pumped to have Peter Sandeen back on the show today and I am even more excited about the topic we will be covering today on “How You Create Your 6-Figure Website”. I hope you are ready with a piece of paper and a pen or your notepad. And Peter Sandeen is best known for creating marketing messages that make people immediately feel that’s perfect for me and wouldn’t you want for your clients to have that feeling right away for your soulmate clients, Dream clients, whatever you call them, that they read your message and think that’s perfect for me. That’s why Peter often is called “The Marketer’s Marketer” because over half of his clients are actually other marketing experts who want to see their own blind spots and make sure they focus on what matters most. So let’s dive right into today’s episode on How You Create Your 6-Figure Website. While I am so over the moon, Peter, that you are back today, welcome.

Peter Sandeen [1:22]
Thank you.

Christine Schlonski [1:23]
So I loved our conversation about you know, digging deeper in the sales calls and knowing that the first reason or the first reasons are probably not the truth, why somebody didn’t buy and I think preparing people to come to a call strong and by strong, I mean that they know who you are, what you are about, what you stand for, what you can deliver is already a really great preparation to have better sales calls because people will determine like if they are fit or not. Before they book that interview, and for that, you probably need a pretty good website. And I know you are doing a lot of work on messaging on websites on conversion, you have a ton of experience. Tell us a little bit why this matters and what you have experienced and what your offer is basically, to support people in that journey.

Peter Sandeen [2:25]
Well, why it matters is that it’s rare that people come to your sales call before they’ve seen your website in some form, at least they apply for the call or they see a landing page to join your email list or they see an article or your homepage or something. And the issue is that if you think back just how often do you buy something that you have once decided is not right for you? It’s very rare. If you once decide that this doesn’t look like it’s for me. It’s very unusual that you change your mind. It does happen and it’s easy to remember those times because it’s so unusual, but it is very unusual. So that’s why like, how you set up all of your marketing should really get the right idea across the same idea. Because otherwise, people get very confused about like, Well, are you about this thing? Or this other thing? Are you trying to be both because that’s already a little suspicious if there are 17 different things you’re supposedly about?

Peter Sandeen [3:24]
So that’s, that’s like sort of my perspective to it that the message pastor stays somewhat consistent. You’re not saying the same words, you’re just conveying the same ideas or the same thoughts so that people get a consistent idea of what you are. And the website is just still sort of the center of almost all marketing online. It doesn’t necessarily do the most work. It’s not that you have the most steps on the website. You might have a lot of ads and funnel pages and such but almost always, the website is somewhere there. And while you asked like, can I support people? Yes. I’m happy to, I’ve been working on these things for a very long time. And I’m also not publishing any program on it. That’s more of a do it yourself and just get it done very quickly, both the message and the website so it really fits into what you’re doing.

Christine Schlonski [4:12]
Yeah, I love it. And you are also about conversion because it’s so important that you know, just a pretty website is not going to do the job. At the end of the day, we want customers to come into the door. So we can actually create the magic we create those people. What do you think people can do? Because I know also a lot of people with website shame. What can they do to make it simple, but very effective?

Peter Sandeen [4:42]
Well, those are usually the same thing. Simple is often the same as effective, at least more so than complex is always the same as ineffective. That’s just a thing. But yeah, I’ve seen countless very, very fancy looking website. site’s completely outperformed by very simple, very basic, cheap websites. When I was working as a subcontractor for a conversion optimization agency, there was one huge brand. I mean, everyone would know the brand. They had paid a quarter-million dollars for their websites. And it looked amazing but didn’t produce sales. I mean, a few sales, but I mean, they were getting hundreds of thousands of visitors a month. So obviously, it would make a few sales. But yeah, like you can pay any amount of money for websites. And it’s not the same as actually something that works.

Peter Sandeen [5:34]
Like one business friend calls, website designers, websites, artists, and it’s very different things to design something that works sort of like an engineer, or just make it an art project is very far from each other. So yeah, simplicity, especially in the design and like on the message, it forces you at least to do something that can work. Whereas if you’re trying to cram it, full of stuff, full of different things that just virtually never works. So if you force yourself to just think that, okay, I have to keep it super, super simple, then you’re at least thinking of the right things because you’re looking for something simple to say something people can immediately understand and can immediately relate to and think that hey, that looks like it’s for me. Whereas complicated websites can’t really do that. And this doesn’t mean that your website has to look like everyone else’s, it doesn’t mean that it can’t look very unique and interesting and all like, start with the simple and unlike build out from there, like if once you get the basics right, then yeah, go crazy with design if you want. But don’t, don’t go the other way. That doesn’t work.

Christine Schlonski [6:43]
Don’t overdo it, right? Sometimes I really have a hard time when I see a super ugly website that supposedly converts really, really well. It’s just something with me that goes like yeah, but why like Why? Why doesn’t the person take better care of the beauty on the page? But you know, beauty is also one of my values. So I probably want more on the side of looking at pretty websites, and then probably not buying because I get so caught up in pretty pictures and designs. So I totally see the point. So what can like for example, consultant, a coach, a healer, what’s important for them to have on their page? So it’s as simple as it can be, and they have a good chance of people actually clicking so they can sign up for a call.

Peter Sandeen [7:35]
When we go back to the marketing message, and again how I look at it is what is it that people need to understand about you or your product or service so they want to buy it and that’s the message the things that really make the biggest difference there. If you know that then you should really just say it. He just makes sure that those things come across how you say varies from page to page, obviously go somewhere. You have a lot of stuff and other places not so much. But so it’s not about the words, it’s really about what is it that they need to understand. And then just say it, and the more easily people can understand it, the better. So if you want to be really fancy with words, try poetry. Don’t shove it into marketing. It can work. I’m not saying it cannot work, I’m just saying it’s really hard. And it’s probably a risk not worth taking.

Peter Sandeen [8:26]
To start again, something simple and then build out from there. So it really doesn’t have to end up looking ugly. That’s not at all the point it doesn’t end up doesn’t have to end up looking minimalistic. It just has to be one where people immediately see what they are supposed to see. And not a lot of clutter around it because every piece of excess stuff just takes away attention from the things that really make the difference. So that’s where I would start and what do you need to say? It really depends on your case, but generally speaking, maybe the simplest thing to wonder about or think about is what is the pain that people really want to get rid of that you’re helping them with. One that they can easily understand and believe that you really do help with. And then just say that make it easy for people to understand that they can get something they really want. And then you can improve on that. But that’s a decent place to start from.

Christine Schlonski [9:22]
So what you also say that leading with pain in the conversation is stronger than leading this, the happiness and joy they get once they are through the process.

Peter Sandeen [9:34]
Usually, unfortunately, yes. There’s plenty of studies on it that people will work harder to avoid the same amount of pain as the same amount of pleasure. So if I offer you $100 to do something, you’re willing to do a lot less than if I told you that I’m going to take $100 away from you if you don’t do and it works consistently. There are exceptions if people in your industry like your target customers truly are primarily concerned with a positive outcome. They’re not in pain. They’re not concerned with any problem they have, but rather they just want something better. It’s extremely unusual, but it does happen. But in those cases, yes. If your target customers are not thinking of pain, or if not feeling about feeling your pain or thinking about a problem, then yeah, don’t talk about those. But generally, unfortunately, that’s just not how humans work. We are far more concerned with issues rather than our positive goals.

Christine Schlonski [10:31]
Yeah, and I totally agree. I also know the studies and I also teach for sales conversations, you have to talk about the pain and you have to hold the space so the person can experience it, and get really, really clear, because then from there, once they’re clear, they know where they want to go, and what the outcome is, but if it’s just wishy-washy, and a vague idea of just doesn’t feel good, then it’s not helping you to really show how you can help them in a way that is very appealing. So it already starts at the website.

Peter Sandeen [11:08]
Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [11:09]
Yeah. The attention like getting the attention you get that was something people want to avoid, right?

Peter Sandeen [11:15]
Yeah, yeah. And like, It usually starts actually somewhere else. It might start, well, okay, if you write the content on your website, then that might be the first contact you have with people. But in a lot of cases, it is an advertisement, or it’s a referral from somewhere or it’s a search engine result, or it’s often something else. And just making sure that it stays consistent, really does make a big difference.

Christine Schlonski [11:42]
So it stays consistent and all the different places you show up?

Peter Sandeen [11:46]
Yeah. And so that when people see the first message, it’s no different from the second or the third or the fourth, but rather that they immediately see the Hey, this looks really good. And it just keeps building on that like yes, this is exactly what I want. like is this really, oh, it really is. Let me talk with this person. And then they come to the call with this expectation that this is what they want. And this is a solution for them. Because it seems to them, everything they’ve seen from you makes them think that this is like it’s built for me, which it is this, it’s funny to point out that like, you’re supposed to build something that really is meant for them. But it’s a different thing to make them believe that or feel that that is the case. And when you can do that, then things are a lot easier. Especially the sales conversations are much easier. There’s way less pressure on pushing people into something. But rather there’s a lot more trust than people feel already understood by the time they come there because everything they’ve seen them from you, including a website or emails or such. It all feels like hey like you’re clearly talking to me, these are the things I want. So it’s easy to take the next step.

Christine Schlonski [12:54]
Yeah, totally. And so when you talk to people like what are you looking for? Maybe like finding a certain question like, do you have a favorite question that says something like you always ask because it reveals so much about the person and helps you to know which path you want to take them on?

Peter Sandeen [13:17]
Well, I generally ask three questions. The first one is how did you get to the point where you are now? That’s honestly more about them feeling understood, rather than it affecting it’s very significant. Like sometimes it does. So it’s important to ask, but that’s more about that. Then the second question is, where are you now? Like, what is your current situation? Whatever you think is relevant for me to know. Tell that and that’s very revealing. Because usually, again, I can already tell Okay, I think you need these things. But the third question is, so where do you want to get to and why what are the goals you want to achieve? Or what are the outcomes you want to see in a year or six months or something that would make you feel like okay, it was a great year or great six months? Like with those three questions, I can usually very easily tell if I’m the right person to help them or not. If not, then I’ll just tell them that like, okay, sounds great. I think maybe this person could help. Or maybe you should look into this thing. I’m not right for you. But if it is, then I can much more easily tell them that like, here’s what I think you could do. Here’s also how I can support you with that. And it’s, it’s never a sales call as much as it is me getting to make a recommendation. And then if they like the recommendation, then I can say that well, are you interested in getting help with it? And I don’t think anyone has ever said no, if they like the recommendation, because it’s yeah, go ahead. You can use it yourself if you want to, but like, might be easier with some help.

Christine Schlonski [14:45]
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I love that you’re also like to send people somewhere else, and really help them to get a recommendation. It can be a person but it could also be like a book or like, another resource somewhere and sometimes people are not as educated as they need to be to work with you, because they haven’t reached that stage of maturity. And then you can just give them something they can work towards that stage so they can come back at a later time. That’s also what of what I love to do. So is that like a book that made a huge difference in your life that you could recommend?

Peter Sandeen [15:27]
Does an audiobook count? Honestly, what made the biggest difference in my life was Tony Robbins, his “Personal Power”. I was probably 16 or 17 when my then-girlfriend now-wife got it. And it completely changed both of our lives because neither of us had any idea that life could be so much better than what we have seen in our like immediate circle of people and like what our parents thought both our parents were they have very small ideas of what life can be. So that honestly made the biggest difference just a completely different level of control over your life was what I got from it.

Christine Schlonski [16:07]
Wow, that’s so powerful. And that again brings us to the idea of dreaming big. Right? That’s also something that I like to show my clients in a conversation as seeing possibilities. Right and then when they dream too small, I tell them I don’t know how but what do you do when you spend you when you talk to someone who doesn’t dream big enough?

Peter Sandeen [16:33]
Well, I usually point out that like, that’s small. Like, when you think that? Like, if I help you like you’ll get that, what then? Like, let’s talk about something that’s a little bit of a challenge. Like that’s because I mean, I just can’t help myself if someone has very small dreams and I’m immediately like, come on, like think big, you have way more potential than that. I believe a lot in people maybe sometimes too much. Even like maybe those small goals are realistic for some people, but they’re not usually the people who end up talking with me. I don’t tend to attract people with very small dreams. I also don’t attract a lot of people who have these crazy billionaire dreams or something like that at all. But yeah, sometimes people like come people come and they say that? Well, I’d like to make 10,000 euros next year. I’m like, can we add a zero there? Like, I mean, yeah, maybe we don’t get to 100. But like, if 10 is the goal, then we need to do it multiple times over before it’s truly like a very meaningful thing.

Peter Sandeen [17:38]
As a business, it can be a meaningful outcome for someone personally, if they’ve never made a sale online, then the first dollar is big. But it’s, that’s how I usually look at it. But let’s put goals that we don’t even have to reach them. If we get halfway there. It’s already good. If we get 80% there, then it’s already great. If we actually reach the goal, then that’s awesome. And usually, I set goals that are about twice as big for the client. I mean, I don’t tell them, but I often think in my head, okay, they want to get 100,000 extra. So how do I make them at least 200 or 300, or 500? Like what would make 100,000 seem like peanuts. And again, I don’t talk about it to the client, but rather, it’s just a little clip. That’s sort of how I start leading it so that the odds of getting to the hundred get as big as possible, while also being very mindful of what they actually want, what sort of business they want to do. So if they don’t want to do group coaching, then I’m not gonna talk about group coaching. If they don’t want to do X, Y, and Z, then I want to talk about those.

Peter Sandeen [18:44]
A lot of people don’t, for example, want to do sales calls. Then we don’t do sales calls. Like you don’t have to do sales

Christine Schlonski [18:51]
You can send them to me.

Peter Sandeen [18:53]
Yeah, I might try to discount them into later on like, Hey, there would be a benefit if we can talk about this. Are you open to it? If not, okay, cool. Never mind just checking. But yeah, that’s how I approach smaller goals that I try to get them to a point where even a failure is still a bigger success. And then myself if I’m their coach, and I think of like, what would make that sort of the minimum that we’ll get to? It doesn’t always work. Of course, it doesn’t always work, but it’s very unusual that it doesn’t.

Christine Schlonski [19:25]
Yeah, I just love how you inspire yourself and how you motivate yourself for your clients. Because it really helped. Well, it helps I think it helps to show up as a better coach, right? As someone who maybe does ask the question they have in their mind turning it lecture by asking Should I not write it really gives you that little extra push? Because you see that potential? And that’s something because I think everybody should have a coach and a mentor so that they can see the potential in them. Because oftentimes we can’t do it by ourselves or not in such a big way in a much smarter way. And then it takes the same energy, right? So big goals or big dreams take the same energy than small ones. So it’s up to you to decide if the big goal is to get a new carpet in your living room. Or the big goal is to tour the world, right? It’s the same thought that takes the same energy. But yeah, I’m quite sure with touring the world, you will be much better off.

Peter Sandeen [20:30]
Yeah, and I’m actually for me, it’s easier. It takes less energy. If I have a bigger goal in my mind, especially for clients, because I don’t have the pressure then to actually do the work. It’s still up to them to do the work. So a bigger goal doesn’t affect my workload, but it makes me excited, which makes it much easier. If I’m not excited about a project. It’s an energy drain. If I am excited than I get energy from it. So for me, it’s that way. It’s as much self is as this good for them that I think of bigger goals or, or things that are even more likely to work. Because that makes it actually easier for me to have the energy for it.

Christine Schlonski [21:12]
Yeah, that’s a good point I’m, you know, I’m always when I come out of a client call, I’m always energized. It’s always fun. And luckily I didn’t. So far I’ve never taken someone on board who frustrated me or who did take my energy. So that’s really cool. So what does Heart Sells! mean for you?

Peter Sandeen [21:38]
Well, I think if it’s if I have to translate it, I think it is like I can see two ways. One is that either we are really there to help the other person, figure out if this is something they should get. If it would actually help them with something that’s meaningful for them if they should buy it if it would be a net positive for them to do it. And I think the other way is to look at well, hearts as in emotions are really the thing that drives behavior, you only make decisions based on the reptilian brain that only consults the other parts of the brain. So emotions are a massive part of it. Obviously, emotions are technically just another part of the consulting face, but like they are at least as great if not much greater than the logical side. So keeping that in mind that you can’t make sales by just convincing people that they ought to buy this because features, features, features. It is really about them feeling that this is good. And if you sell to companies, that also means that you need to convince the individual to feel good about it. And it’s not about saying that well, the company will save this much money unless it reflects well on them. They probably don’t really care. Like they will say they care, but it probably doesn’t have any impact on them because it doesn’t serve any purpose for them. Other than to just feel like well, they’re doing their job, which can be meaningful for some people. But again, it’s not saving money, it’s about them doing their job well. So really, that those are the ways I would translate Heart Sells!

Christine Schlonski [23:12]
Yeah, yeah, I love it. And it’s so true. And the cup, you know, basically, it reflects the whole conversations we had, about, you know, giving the first reason their excuse and not going deeper, because we kind of wants to protect ourselves. And it’s really difficult to admit that we don’t have a clue why we bought something. Right. We just got triggered and we feel great having it and like, technically, we could have used another product.

Peter Sandeen [23:41]
Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [23:42]
Yeah. So what is a parting piece of guidance that you want to leave us with?

Peter Sandeen [23:48]
Um, I think it’s really is just one thing, then it’s the instead of having a goal that you measure yourself up against, focus on the path there, or focus on the process that gets you there. It’s very, very unusual for anyone to reach any meaningful goal. If they don’t actually have a proper process for it, you might just get insanely lucky. But I mean, that doesn’t usually happen. But if you show up every day with the proper process for reaching a goal, you tend to get there, you can’t guarantee it. But if you keep going forward, then unless it’s an infinitely long road, then you will eventually make it there. And make it such that you feel good about it. Because it’s easy to spend years and years on paths that don’t feel right. I often talk with people who are extremely relieved at the end of the call, because they for the first time have a plan for doing marketing that actually feels right to them, as opposed to something that feels sleazy or against their values or just they have no idea how to do it and they’re really uncomfortable with it for whatever reason. Like yeah, focus on on the way there rather than what the outcome is in the end because you can’t control the outcome, you can control what you do. Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [25:05]
Your own action steps. As I always say, like stop just dreaming act now. The pizza guy is not delivering your dreams, you will have to get off the couch and do something for them. So what a great conversation. Thank you so much. And I love the gift you brought us. It’s basically a test where you can check in how good your ideas are. So in what you say, tell us a little bit about it and how can people get their hands on it?

Peter Sandeen [25:35]
So again, my idea of a marketing message is that what should you make people understand about you or your product or service, so they want to buy? What are those things that really make the biggest difference to how likely they are to buy? And those are the marketing message. And the test helps you check. How good are your current ideas? How likely are those to make people want to buy? It’s a rather ruthless test a lot of people even with a lot of experience, either marketing or business experience have pointed out how they saw things more clearly than before. And some people have seemed a little angry about it because they have realized that oh, this is why I’ve been struggling for so long and why didn’t anyone tell me. But yeah, that’s the whole thing it’s a couple of pages. It’s not a long thing it doesn’t take long to do it’s just a test to see which ideas are most likely to work. You can get it at petersandeen.com/value

Christine Schlonski [26:28]
Awesome. Thank you so so much, and thank you for all these gold nuggets. Right? I did take some notes and I have some things to reflect upon, especially about the message and obviously the website. I haven’t met an entrepreneur yet who did not have a tiny bit of website chain because it’s not up to date or it needs to be tweaked or whatever it is. So a such a great reminder to get the work done. Thank you so much.

Peter Sandeen [26:56]
I argue though that once your website converts, as in it makes you the money you want, then you probably don’t have the shame anymore. So…

Christine Schlonski [27:04]
Yeah, totally like it depends on what you see as, like, do you want to have 100% automation, right? So do you already have something in place that is a course that people can take, and you don’t even need to show up for it? So there are so many layers and levels of how you can organize it and where you can put your focus. So yeah, it’s really great and inspiration pure. Thank you so so much. I’m going to make sure that all the links to you are on the show in the show notes so people can connect with one just with just one click away. And yeah, I want to invite you, my dear listener, to really check out Peter’s work. He’s amazing and what he does, and I’m sure you will be delighted to be connected with him and to learn from him and take the test. Don’t miss out on this opportunity even though it might feel a bit painful, it’s totally worth it and it will give you a ton of clarity. So thank you so much for having been here. And yeah, thank you and have a great day.

Peter Sandeen [28:13]
Thanks. Bye.

Christine Schlonski [28:14]
Wow, what an amazing episode. I hope you have enjoyed that and just that you know, like in between having the conversation with Peter and now recording for you the final touches of this episode including these words right now, I have signed up for his amazing programs 6-Figure Website because I know that my website needs some more love and attention and even greater message so that I can support even more people on this planet. So if you’re thinking about joining us, we’ll make sure you hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the episodes 270 and 271 with Peter. Have a listen, see if this is aligning and connecting with you and for you. And then also check out his amazing free gift, which is a test on checking how good your ideas of what you could say in marketing really are. And as well in the resource section, I’m going to put you a link to Peter’s amazing course 6-Figure Website. Get more leads and sales with no more traffic and without fancy tools or tech. There’s a video as well that you can check out. So I really hope you take that step and you have your website work for you. I am so excited about signing up about taking this course and opportunity. And I hope that if you are a visitor to christineschlonski.com on a regular basis that you will be seeing some changes pretty soon. And depending on when you listen to this episode, they might have already been done. But thank you so much for being here. I hope this has served you well. And I’m looking forward for you to tune in to the next episode and I’m saying bye for now. Wherever you are in this beautiful world.