Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous! This is episode number 268 and we have the amazing Jane Sagalovich back on the show today.

Jane Sagalovich [0:09]
Hi, this is Jane Sagalovich you are listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:15]
I am so super pumped to have a Jane back on the show today. And I hope you already found out if you should be creating an online course and why this might be for you. In this episode we are going to go deeper into the profitability and how you can actually scale and have more impact in a shorter amount of time while you actually reclaim your own time have more free time to create more amazing things basically. So Jane is the Founder and CEO of Scale Your Genius where she guides and inspires experts to serve more clients reclaim their time and create new income streams by helping them to create and sell profitable, sustainable, and scalable online programs in the area of their expertise. If you are here, I know you are an expert and I know you have a gift, something inside of you that you want to unleash. And you probably want to give more to the world than just the one on one, coaching, consulting healing creative work, which is amazing. But with having an online course that is profitable, you will have different worlds opening up for you. So let’s dive in. While I am so super pumped. You are back Jane, welcome.

Jane Sagalovich [1:41]
Thank you. It’s so great to be back here.

Christine Schlonski [1:43]
Yeah, you know, I just love your topic because I think it’s so brilliant to help entrepreneurs, especially coaches and consultants to scale their business. And what I understood in the last episode is that you like going through the corporate experience you had like dealing with all these big numbers, a high ticket wasn’t something you couldn’t do because you couldn’t see the numbers. It was more like that was the next natural thing. And then people said yes. And you were able to have that impact. And now you teach people to have that impact with having actually a profitable course.

Jane Sagalovich [2:24]
Absolutely.

Christine Schlonski [2:26]
So why do you think it’s so important that somebody will have or takes a close look at profitability?

Jane Sagalovich [2:35]
It such a good question. So I will have a few a couple of different angles. The first angle I wanna answer would is based on values. So 2 of my top values are wealth and service. And those 2 combined for me into a profitable high impact business. So one without the other you just go into overserving and not getting any money, you burnt out. That’s not the impact on the people. I know this is a common theme in our industry. The more you charge the better they show up. I believe that to a point that’s not obviously the only reason to charge a higher amount or has to absolutely be value and experience and maybe we can touch on that up another later too later to back that up. But profit is great for you. It’s great for you as the creator who has to be compensated for the time and energy your putting in. That universal flow of energy and money has to flow. And then for your clients the more they pay the higher engaged they are.

Christine Schlonski [3:44]
Yeah totally. yeah. Let’s dive into that kind of mindset, right. That people need to have and I’m totally a believer like the higher you get to charge the more you will show up because that pain of not showing up just becomes bigger and bigger. And I do also see with my clients that the people who are invested the most it’s not just the money piece. It’s also the time investment they make. Right. which is kind of triggered by the money piece. They get so much better results and I’m always wondering why is that that they get a better result than somebody else who’s less invested. Do you see that in your clients too? And what’s your guess or maybe you even have the proof or statistics that come with it.

Jane Sagalovich [4:38]
I have seen anecdotally in my business. And again, because I’m at a higher dollar amount. I don’t have the volume to do statistically significant analysis. But I have on occasion, lowered my prices to take on a client who couldn’t afford more, that they couldn’t afford more. Those people did not have the outcomes of my price of my people. My clients who paid full price so that has been a consistent outcome, even though I’m pretty confident to say that I showed up the exact same way.

Christine Schlonski [5:07]
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that’s so interesting because you want to support them. So that’s why you did what you did.

Jane Sagalovich [5:15]
Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [5:15]
And then they don’t get the results, which is pretty well, probably disappointing or frustrating.

Jane Sagalovich [5:21]
Literally backfires.

Christine Schlonski [5:22]
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I sometimes get frustrated when you know, when I really want for the client to succeed, but they can’t figure out that one piece. Yeah. Because they don’t take the action to figure it out. Right. So yeah, I totally hear that. So is that is there like because I know you did a ton of mindset work to really shift into your business like the sales suck into sales success mindset, and to make your business work so that you can have such a beautiful impact. Is there like something like a book you could recommend that really sticks out from all the books and personal development things you have done?

Jane Sagalovich [6:02]
Yes, The Big Leap. I’m blanking on his name. And the author’s name.

Christine Schlonski [6:11]
Well, let me check in my bookshelf.

Jane Sagalovich [6:15]
Says G.

Christine Schlonski [6:19]
Yeah, it’s interesting. I know exactly what the cover looks like, but a fish jumping from one tiny bit to a big one.

Jane Sagalovich [6:27]
Gay Hendricks.

Christine Schlonski [6:29]
Oh, yes. yeah. Just say it again.

Jane Sagalovich [6:33]
So “The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks. It’s all about our upper limit problems. And I know for me personally, that’s been a big part of what has been holding me down. And that’s the book. I’m actually just finished re-listening to it. You know, I don’t know, third, fourth, fifth time I have it in a book and an audiobook. So I can read it, highlight it, listen to it, do all the things and it basically for anybody who notices themselves, self-sabotage like, they know, they could do so much more, but for some reason, they’re not doing it. That’s the book for you. And that was me. It’s like, I know I could do all of this. Why am I not doing it? And it was just me sabotaging myself, getting myself back down to my comfort level.

Christine Schlonski [7:13]
Yeah, well, and you know what the beauty and the sadness at the same time as we all do it, right? I mean, no matter where what level you are on, there’s always the next level, there’s always a next layer of excellence that you can go to. And we all sabotage ourselves. Maybe it’s not a business, maybe it’s, you know, in another area of your life, maybe relationships or health. And then this is really a great book, and thank you for the little nudge to revisit the book and to take those golden nuggets again and see what I think about them now. I have read the book some years ago, so it’s time to revisit awesome.

Jane Sagalovich [7:56]
You know that’s what I love about revisiting books. It’s like almost reading a brand new book, every time Because your needs change, and so you get different tidbits out of it and different. Yeah, different values.

Christine Schlonski [8:05]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you always evolve like, hopefully,

Jane Sagalovich [8:09]
Hopefully.

Christine Schlonski [8:10]
If you stay on that path, and you know, if people are listening and they are entrepreneurs, like you cannot evolve as an entrepreneur.

Jane Sagalovich [8:19]
I know can I share some of this is interesting for me, one of the things that he said in the book, and then I just recently noticed as the book and some others talk about this as we kind of go around the mountain. So it feels like you’re coming back to the same point, time and time again. Whereas really, you’re coming up to a different a higher version, a different version of that same place. And I had that experience yesterday. I know I shared with you, Christine before we started recording that. I didn’t have a great day yesterday. And part of me was like, Oh my God, not this. Again, I’m not going this into this kind of negative, negative place. And then I started noticing how my self-talk is better. I’m doing some self-care rituals, instead of you know, being on Facebook and it was the same, but it was different. And so it was one of those really cool experiences where, you know, you look at yourself and you’re like, Okay, all that work is worth it. It’s all working even the darker days are still a little brighter.

Christine Schlonski [9:18]
Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, like, for me in the past, I probably would have beaten myself up, or like, totally get distracted with something that’s not serving me. But now you go into self-care rituals, which is really amazing. So maybe we can touch real quick, like, why is it so important to have self-care rituals?

Jane Sagalovich [9:41]
It’s my days of self-care rituals are completely different than my days without and it’s, you know, filling your own cup as service providers, I truly believe we can only give from the overflow. And I know you know, I know if I have a day when I’m on empty. Can I show up for clients Yeah, yes, kinda sorta, but not in the way I can if I take care of myself first.

Christine Schlonski [10:05]
Yeah. So this is basically it’s a call for everyone listening to really revisit your self-care rituals and to make sure you have that integrated because when you do take good care of yourself, everything else will be so much easier and work out so much better. And, you know, I, I experienced that in my business as well like when I have a period where I go without because I think, well, I really have to get this done. And then I’m so driven and ambitious. And then all of a sudden, I’m thinking, ah, and now you know, I really need a break. Then I wonder, why I just I enjoy doing the whole thing. Why do I feel like I need that break? Well, simply because I forgot to take it in between. And it does, it does make a big impact on how you show up, how you sell, how you serve. And it’s really, really important. Because you do have that background also with you know that the higher numbers with really juggling millions and lots of other zeros. What can you tell an entrepreneur who is on that journey where they know they are worse, that their services is worth so much more, but they just can’t get that number out of their mouth?

Jane Sagalovich [11:22]
Yeah. You know what I tell my clients, we work on pricing strategies a lot because again, you see this everyone listening sees this, it’s such an important part of your business model. I always say start where you’re comfortable and raise your price. Either at every client every new client you get your raise your price, or you know with courses, maybe your next launch whatever it is for you. Keep raising your prices until people start saying no, let the market decide. And then for you because you’re going up gradually, you know, takes a lot of that fear away.

Christine Schlonski [11:53]
Yeah, that’s a great idea to just basically try it out.

Jane Sagalovich [11:58]
Yeah, start a little higher than you’re comfortable so I don’t say go too low. So if you’re comfortable 3000 starts at 3500. And then keep calling up in most of them. You know, the feedback I get from my clients is like, the first ones like, Oh my god, they said yes. I never thought they would say yes at December. And so as soon as they get that positive feedback, now they’re more comfortable, okay, I can say 4000. Okay, I can say 4500. And now it just creates this positive reinforcement for them. Where it’s no longer scary. It almost becomes like a fun little game.

Christine Schlonski [12:27]
Yeah, well, obviously you need the feedback and need to see like, do you still get the testimonials like you want to get them so that you make sure that you do deliver more than what you charge? But I think it’s a really healthy way too, to kind of play visit. Right and to kind of check the market what’s the market, giving you?

Jane Sagalovich [12:49]
Exactly, exactly. And as we know, with you know, with marketing, and with what you teach people it’s sometimes if people aren’t saying yes, it could just be the marketing might need to be tweaked rather than the price.

Christine Schlonski [13:00]
Yeah, totally, I believe it’s never really about the price. It’s really about the offer you make, like the whole package, like the service and the outcome. And then if you are talking to your soulmate client to the ones you’re supposed to serve, then they find a way, no matter what the price is at the end of the day because they see the value. And they know they will get the value when they work with you.

Jane Sagalovich [13:28]
Absolutely. You know, the other thing that it’s funny, I’ve always done this just as a habit. But I hear this set a lot in this world is to spend money, invest in other services at that price level or higher so that you get the experience of handing over that much money too. I think that’s an important part. I invest so much into my coaches and consultants, because I just love again, the flow of energy, but also, it allows me to increase my expertise. Therefore I’m a better provider for my clients. So I think there’s just so much value in doing that as part of your experience, too, in addition to just experiencing handing over that much money,

Christine Schlonski [14:06]
Totally I 100% agree. Thank you so much for bringing that up. Because once you’ve done it, right, as I heard, that was one of my mentors when I was really, you know, that I knew there was an offer to be made. And I was just in my head, I was just going to, please don’t let it be more than you know. And then at the end of the day, it was like more than double and I was like, certain I knew I wanted it. I knew it was perfect for me. And I had already decided, but then the price tech next threw me off. And somebody who I spent like the day was we had lunch together and we had a coffee together and we had like wonderful conversations and she looked over and she said, well, you look like you need to decide something. I’m like, well, you know, I really want to do it but like that price point like and she was like why you know that you have to become the client, you want to attract, right? And I was like, Wow, this is so powerful. And yeah, basically, I went to the back of the room. And I say, so and now I had that experience. And I knew I had invested at this level, I knew I was willing to do what it takes. And then it’s so much easier to ask the same from your clients. Mm-hmm.

Jane Sagalovich [15:28]
You know what another side benefit that I got out of this too, is I would pay a lot of money. And I would be in their program. And a lot of times, I’m like, mine is so much better. And so it gave me that confidence to like, okay, they can charge this much money and this is what they’re delivering. I could totally charge this for mine too, you know, kind of gives you the perspective of what the market does pay for out there to

Christine Schlonski [15:56]
Such a great point. Yes. Yeah.

Jane Sagalovich [15:59]
I mean, I think and send amazing programs that have been truly, truly, truly, this is not a knock at programs. Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [16:04]
Yeah, Yeah. But I totally know what you mean. Like it’s, you know, you go for some area that you want to improve that you want to learn. And at the same time, it’s always a little bit of market research. And if it’s just on the way how they execute.

Jane Sagalovich [16:18]
Yes.

Christine Schlonski [16:18]
Right. When you think like, what, what kind of customer journey would I like for my clients to have, and then you go into that high-end program, and you see what they are doing. And for some things, you will be totally blown away, and you can be inspired by what you can do. And then there are other things where you probably think like, Huh, at this price, one price point, I would have expected a different experience. So I definitely gonna make sure that my clients are not experiencing this, right. So you really get value like wherever you want to get value from like you will see all these different layers and not just the content that you signed up for.

Jane Sagalovich [16:56]
Absolutely. I think also for people who are new to you know what we’re selling high ticket if they if they’ve never taken something that is high-ticket, their view in their mind of what this needs to be able to charge 510 15 whatever thousand dollars, maybe so huge and they don’t realize it could actually be much smaller too. they could be, you know, any other perfectionist in the room? I think this is a tendency we all have, like, oh, I’m going to charge $10,000 like, this better get them a million dollars of value. And that’s, you know, that’s not it.

Christine Schlonski [17:27]
Yeah, I just did a wide Variety Friday, like Done is Better Than Perfect.

Jane Sagalovich [17:32]
Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [17:33]
Because that, you know, a lot of people struggle with that they kind of have this perception what they need to do for their clients. And they forget that the clients have their own brain. They can you know, transform, and process their own space and pace. And you know, you can’t really push it but you have to hold the space for them. And yeah, that’s a really good point.

Jane Sagalovich [17:59]
Can I give a quick example of how this relates to the course is to?

Christine Schlonski [18:02]
Oh, yes, please.

Jane Sagalovich [18:03]
I noticed that when people are creating online courses, especially ones that are going to get thousands of dollars per client, they think they have to do like professional video recording and perfect like it has to be professionally done. And so I talked to somebody who just spent $20,000 professionally recording their videos, I’m like, Oh my God, that’s not necessary for his particular audience. Now, if somebody’s doing a course for corporate or there’s an audience that does require that sure. I record all the videos for my courses in my life in my home office, which is my living room. And you could do it with a green screen and you know, with your phone, a nice mic and that’s pretty much it. And so, even if you are selling a course at $10,000 or $15,000 you still don’t have to overdo on the delivery and invest too much money in it.

Christine Schlonski [18:56]
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you’re not doing like a PIXAR Production or production? The content is what is important.

Jane Sagalovich [19:03]
It’s like and that’s not what and that’s exactly it. Where’s the value to the client? And it is not in the quality of your video above a certain baseline of good enough.

Christine Schlonski [19:14]
Well, yeah, well, obviously you don’t want to set was really bad lights and a bad mic and everything. I mean, there needs to be a certain standard, but you don’t need to have a whole video crew. Yeah, I totally get that point. Yeah, so better than perfect.

Jane Sagalovich [19:31]
Absolutely.

Christine Schlonski [19:32]
You can actually have something that delivers value and you can make money from so you have a business. And so what one thing I would love to know is how do you deal with rejection? I mean, especially in this higher price or higher-end customer arena. What do you do if someone says no? How do you feel and what have you learned on the way

Jane Sagalovich [19:58]
I feel sad for them. I only make offers to people who I know I can help. So if they’re at a point where they get to say no, that means I’ve made the offer. And now I’m like, Oh my god, I can’t you know, I can’t believe you’re, I can’t believe you’re saying no to yourself is how I see it. Like, I know, this is the thing you need. I know this can change your business and your life. And I’m so sad that you just said no.

Christine Schlonski [20:20]
Yeah.

Jane Sagalovich [20:22]
That’s where it comes from me.

Christine Schlonski [20:23]
Yeah. Okay. And do you? I mean, do you ask why they say no. Or is it just like, a no is a no.

Jane Sagalovich [20:31]
Most of the objections I get are on time, time or money. You know, it does take time to create an online program. This isn’t a snap your fingers and it happens. It’s not a done for you service. And so it does take about two hours a week for 90 days is average. And there are people who I would say they truly believe they don’t have the time. And you know, I’m not a mindset coach. I know that that’s something that can be worked through, and I’m not that person. So

Christine Schlonski [21:04]
Well, it’s not the priority at this moment then.

Jane Sagalovich [21:07]
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [21:09]
All right. So, like, I would love for you to have like the, like, what the piece of advice that you want to leave the listeners first. But before we do that, I really want to make sure that people get your profitable course topic cheat sheet because that’s so important for you to see like, are you ready? Do you have a topic? And if you have several, which you probably do, like which topic can you pick that will create a course or help you to create a course that is profitable? So you really can have this impact? So tell us a little bit about the cheat sheet.

Jane Sagalovich [21:45]
Yeah, exactly. And so I have you brainstorm your topics based on a number of prompts that I gave you. And like Christine said, you will have multiple ideas. How do you pick the best one? Well, page two of your cheat sheet will help you rank your ideas based on a specific scorecard I give you. So it’ll be super clear which one is going to be the most impactful for your clients and the most profitable for you.

Christine Schlonski [22:07]
Awesome. Thank you so much. So then what’s the parting piece of guidance you would love to leave as with.

Jane Sagalovich [22:14]
I would say, be super clear on what kind of results you want this model to have for you, as well as for your clients. And it’s at the overlap of these two that I think magic happens. And with online courses being such a hot topic these days, so many people just say I want to create a course without really thinking about what that means for their life in their business. So be super thoughtful, what that looks like for you. And then what kind of results are you super excited to get for your clients? And those two pieces will take you in the right direction as far as creating your course and will also keep you super inspired through the whole process.

Christine Schlonski [22:53]
Yeah. Love it. Love it. Thank you so so much, Jane, for sharing your wisdom for being so open like I feel we really went deep. And you were so open to share your experience and you know, the ups and downs, which I think is like part of entrepreneurship because entrepreneurship is personal development. So if you want to do something that is extraordinary, which that’s the reason why you become an entrepreneur, even more than probably having the freedom and creating wealth and all that stuff. But yeah, just thank you for sharing with us so openly.

Jane Sagalovich [23:30]
Yeah, thank you for giving me this beautiful conversation to feel safe doing so.

Christine Schlonski [23:35]
Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, see you soon.

Christine Schlonski [23:38]
I just loved the conversation with Jane and I also loved our previous one on why an online course might be for you. I hope you had the chance to listen to that. There are so many golden nuggets I am totally inspired. And as I mentioned previously, I am in the midst of creating this hybrid model where there is an online course that is recorded, so basically, a digital version that people can watch at the same time. And then there is group coaching that helps to answer questions that help to get momentum up and helps people to take action. So I am so excited about all the amazing things that I have learned. And I hope you have taken a ton away from those two episodes, hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the podcast tab. And then you have not just the show notes and the transcripts, but all the links to connect with Jane, her amazing profitable course topic cheat sheet that you can download. And also once you’re over there, sign up for the Empowerment Notes. That’s empowerment right into your inbox with things I usually do not share on social media, as well as all the updates on Heart Sells! Podcast and once you at christineschlonski.com and you’re having fun on the page, also check out the experience, right. These are the masterclasses and online summits that I have done in the past and we are putting them up so you can re-experience and learn from all these amazing experts that I have interviewed there. See their presentations, get insights on how to create a business fast with ease profitable, so hop on over there and check that out as well. But thank you so much for listening right now. I really, really appreciate you. I love supporting you on your journey by giving more of your gifts to this beautiful world. And I hope you are taking to heart what Jane has taught. And you are creating an online course that helps you scale your business because happy people make people happy and the more people you can impact in a positive way the better your life will be because you help so many people with theirs. Thank you so much for having been here. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.