Judy Hoberman is an award-winning, international speaker, best-selling author, trainer, and leading authority on women in leadership.
With over 3 decades in business, she combines wisdom and humor with her behavior shaping insights impacting audiences of 10,000 as well as small groups and even individuals through her 1:1 executive coaching and mentoring. Men and women lead, sell, manage, and recruit differently and Judy is the master at improving performance and company culture empowering both genders to better support each other’s successes in more productive ways.
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... and your mindset will take it from there. Yogi Berra once said "90% of the game is half mental." With your heart and mind aligned (like planets) you'll be amazed at what you can accomplish. Subsribe, listen and start selling!
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Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Free Gift: Skirting the Issues: Mini Guide
This “miniGUIDE” scratches the surface regarding the world of sales and business from a woman’s point of view.
Selling in a Skirt by Judy Hoberman
Walking on the Glass Floor: Seven Essential Qualities of Women Who Lead by Judy Hoberman
Selling in a Skirt RADIO
3 Key Points:
- Failure is an event, it’s not a person when their answer is no, it doesn’t mean they’re saying no to you. They’re saying no to your product or your service.
- Don’t just sell but instead offer an opportunity.
- Not everybody is your customer even though the people you think should be your customers they’re not and the ones that you’re not even sure should be they are. It’s just this one person so go to the NEXT one.
[4:10] Once you help your clients to shift that mindset, as I call it, into a sales-success-mindset everything shifts.
[4:40] You have to remember that not everybody is your customer, so when the answer is no, it doesn’t mean they’re saying no to you. They’re saying no to your product or your service.
[6:05] It’s including people, giving that being of service and helping them to find the best way possible by providing the possibility
[6:39] Make sure no matter what sales you’re in, no matter what you’re selling, you should have those strategic partners available as part of your team Because it’s important. You can’t be everything to everybody because then you’re nobody to anybody.
[7:41] Not everybody is your customer even though the people you think should be your customers they’re not and the ones that you’re not even sure should be they are.
[9:09] “Power Questions” and it’s by Andrew Sobel, one of the questions he says that he just loves which turns a conversation is “What do you still want to accomplish?”
[10:26] “The Go-Giver” is one of the most important concepts that you have to understand as a salesperson or any person
[11:43] By reading “The Go-Giver” it really shifted my energy, my thinking, and it helped me to have a big influence on the commission I earned and on the revenue, I drove and for the company, because all of a sudden it was really about the relationship. Not just theory, but it was about the relationship, and the rest just came by serving.
[13:50] Sales can be fun. Sales can be easy, it can be done gracefully, and you can do it with confidence.
[14:41] It’s all about being heart. It’s about that you really truly care about the person, it’s people-centric rather than product-centric.
[15:58] People really need that different perspective that it’s not just the two of us, but so many amazing people are creating. You can be authentic, you don’t even need to sell, you just need to invite.
[18:05] I was building relationships, even though I took longer, even though I asked a lot of questions. It was building a relationship. And that’s what sales are.
[21:01] You just have to find whatever inspires you to do the great things.
[21:45] Take one thing and work on it and see how it works for you.
[21:58] www.sellinginaskirt.com/special-offer a great tool, a mini-guide with different activities and exercises and case studies where you can take it and implement it today
[23:26] Just remember that you can change your attitude, you can change your point of view, you can change how you feel about selling in an instant.
For FULL Transcript click here:
Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous! This is episode number 256 and we have the wonderful Judy Hoberman back on the show.
Judy Hoberman [0:09]
Hi! This is Judy Hoberman and you’re listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.
Christine Schlonski [0:15]
Well, I am so over the moon that I have Judy Hoberman back on the show today and that I can get some more of her golden nuggets for you. We will be talking today about why you don’t even need to sell anything. Why growing your business and how that works. Judy Hoberman is an award-winning international speaker, a best selling author, trainer and leading authority on Woman in Leadership. With over three decades in business. She combines wisdom and humor with her behavior shaping insights, impacting audiences of 10,000 as well as small groups and even individuals through her one on one executive coaching and mentoring. Men and women lead, sell, manage and recruit differently and Judy is the master at improving performance and company culture, empowering both genders to better support each other’s successes in more productive ways. So I’m so super excited let’s tune right in.
Christine Schlonski [1:21]
Well, I am so super pumped you are back on the show Judy welcome.
Judy Hoberman [1:26]
Thank you so much. It’s always a pleasure.
Christine Schlonski [1:29]
Yeah, I just love our conversations and you know, the, the value you deliver and all the wisdom like what you have learned over years and years, like decades of selling in different industries. And you said so beautifully in the previous episode as well. It’s all about that relationship building. If you really go to the place where you can give, right even though you might be in that neediness like you really need the sale, but you can transform that and you can come to why you are even with this customer because you want to serve. By any office amazing gift you want to share, then that’s that’s a magic moment where things will change from being desperate to serving because you can’t feel both emotions at the same time.
Judy Hoberman [2:20]
Yeah, you know, when you said that something just sparked a memory for me. When I first started in insurance, I was a single mom. And for me, I had that desperate feeling. I was a single mom, I was going to be taking this position 100% commission, and how do you support your family? So I’m taking this position and I take my kids to school every day and I drop them off and I say to myself. Oh! I hate this. It’s every single day. I hate this. I don’t even know why I’m doing this. Once I got to the appointment, I was fine. But getting there was this horrible feeling. When I was when I left I was okay. But every day was the same thing. But one day was probably a month into this wonderful career that I was having. I looked at my kids and I said, you know what, my one and only job in this entire world is to protect my children. And all of a sudden, the desperation and everything flipped because I thought, if I could protect my family, what about yours and yours and yours and yours? So I got in my car, I drove my kids to school, I took my rearview mirror and turned it to me. So I could see myself and I said, you now have the privilege of protecting a family with a very different mindset. Put the mirror back drove, I was all excited. And my career changed at that moment. And even though I did have those moments of desperation, and how do I support and so on and so forth. It wasn’t the desperation of if I don’t get this sale, and to me, that was the difference of like, night and day. So, yeah, that’s what changed my career.
Christine Schlonski [4:03]
Yeah, I just love it. It’s so, so powerful. And I see that and probably you see that too, with your clients once you help them to shift that mindset, as I call it into a sales success, mindset. Everything shifts.
Judy Hoberman [4:17]
Christine Schlonski [4:18]
A fun conversation instead of a sales conversation, right? You’re building a relationship where somebody at the end, pays you and gives you money for all the value you are adding. But it’s not that sleazy, slimy transactional kind of thing that so many people, especially women are afraid of.
Judy Hoberman [4:39]
Yeah, yeah. And you have to remember that not everybody is your customer. So when the answer is no, it doesn’t mean they’re saying no to you. They’re saying no to your product or your service. And that’s a big learning lesson because you always think it’s you. Failure is an event. It’s not a person. So if it fails to go through, it’s because of its situation. It has nothing to do with you unless it does. And then you’re, you know, that’s a different story, but most times it isn’t. And so you want to have a relationship with people and you want to be able to say to them, this is what I suggest, from what you’ve just told me. Here’s something that I suggest. But like I told you before, I have walked away from many sales, it just because it didn’t make sense to me. But I’ve received so many referrals, rather than the sale. And the other pieces, we sold a very, very highly underwritten product. So if you were not really healthy, you couldn’t get through. And so one of the things I mean, you walk in and you see somebody that’s on an oxygen tank, you know, you can’t write them, but I always continued my conversation. I continued with it as if they had the possibility. And then I would say, you may not be able to qualify for this, but I do have something else that would work for you. So I never just walked out the door going oh my goodness, I can’t even do this. I always acted as if they were part of my circle.
Christine Schlonski [6:04]
I love that. So it’s including people. It’s, you know, giving that being of service and helping them to find the best way possible. And it’s up to them to say, well, I wanted, I don’t want it, but at least you provide that possibility.
Judy Hoberman [6:20]
Right? Right. And remember, you can’t do this alone. So no matter what you’re selling, it’s not just you. So for me, I always had somebody that had a guaranteed issue policy, I had somebody that was, you know, auto insurance, things that I didn’t sell. So I had a team. So if I couldn’t help you, I knew that so and so could help you or so and so could help you. So make sure no matter what sales you’re in, no matter what you’re selling, you should have those strategic partners available as part of your team. Because it’s important. You can’t be everything to everybody because then you’re nobody to anybody.
Christine Schlonski [6:54]
So, so true. So how do you handle rejections? Now? I mean, what advice would you give people who may be cringe when they hear no or they go in and think Oh, please don’t say no, like I need I just need one more sale to win that thing, or whatever it is, like how what advice would you give them so people could focus on what’s really important.
Judy Hoberman [7:15]
So I have a favorite four-letter word. So anytime I hear something that makes no sense to me, like no, I use it. And it’s in my brain. I don’t say it out loud. But really, I used to do with my sales team, and the word is next, next, next, next. Because this person wasn’t right for you, but the next person probably will be. And you know, sometimes they say it takes 10 people or takes nine people so you just say okay, I’m on my ninth. Now here’s my 10th but I always use the word next. Not everybody is your customer even though the people you think should be your customers they’re not and the ones that you’re not even sure should be they are. So you know, I just use the word next. But with that said give yourself permission to wallow in it for a minute just go oh my goodness, I didn’t get it. Blah blah blah reviews the conversation that you had and see, maybe there was a reason that you could have helped them and you didn’t. Or maybe they clearly were not meant to be working with you. But I just use the word next. It saves me all the time, you know, and my client, my agent used to come in and go everybody’s a diabetic. Everybody has no money everybody does. And I would hold up the sign next. And so after a while, I didn’t need the sign. I would just go like this. And they got it. No, like, I know, it’s not everybody. It’s just this one person.
Christine Schlonski [8:28]
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow. So we talked about it and you mentioned in the previous episode that you had mentors, you had a coach, I was very important for you to have a coach, even though you had to find the money at that point. Like, what could you maybe is there like a book or something you could recommend for people that have made a big difference for you?
Judy Hoberman [8:53]
So I have been dubbed the “Question Queen”. And the reason is because I asked more questions than anybody else. And as seriously, I know, people can’t even imagine that I get one more question. But the one of the books that really stood out for me because of the questions, it’s called
Judy Hoberman [9:09]
“Power Questions” and it’s by Andrew Sobel. And he tells you some of the questions that you hear all the time that you should not be asking, like, one of them is like, What keeps you up at night? That’s a dumb question to ask people who tells you that, so you don’t ask him. But one of the questions he says that he just loves it’s one of his most power questions that I’ve used, because it turns the conversation. It’s not anything that’s manipulating, but it just turns a conversation. I’ve used it with CEOs. I’ve used it with first time salespeople. And the question is, what do you still want to accomplish? Now, the reason it’s so powerful is because most people don’t ever ask that question. And so when I asked it, I asked it two different CEOs two different days apart. And both of them said, no one’s ever asked me that question and they sat back for a minute, and they said, here’s what I want to accomplish. It was things that they had never said out loud. The conversation shifted. And all of a sudden, I was now part of their trusted circle, their personal Board of Directors almost because they would say, okay, so what do you think about this? And what do you think? So it changes the question. So that’s one book that really was huge for me the other book is you have a picture of him in right behind you, and it’s “The Go-Giver” because I do believe that the go-giver is one of the most important concepts that you have to understand as a salesperson. Actually any person but especially salespeople, and I used to buy his books by the dozens and just hand them out to people and say, you know, you have to read this, you have to read this. I have a celebrity crush on him anyway, and he knows that so but it’s okay. But I think that that is one of the most important concepts that you have to have is being a go-giver.
Christine Schlonski [10:56]
Yeah, yeah. I just want to mention because it’s audio so people can’t see that. I have a picture of Bob Burg behind me
Judy Hoberman [11:03]
Right behind it. Yes. Okay.
Christine Schlonski [11:06]
Actually I had the honor that he was my episode number two and three. So yeah, it’s Bob Burg and John David Mann who have written “The Go-Giver” series and I highly recommend it.
Judy Hoberman [11:19]
Oh my goodness
Christine Schlonski [11:20]
I handed it out, I give it to people and you know, I have the links in the podcast episodes, I’m going to link this here too. It’s such a difference. And they actually gave me permission to be a connector, because I always thought like in the company, like if they didn’t buy from me, while that’s it, like game over. And by reading the book, it really shifted my energy, my thinking, and it helped me to have a big influence on the commission I earned and on the revenue I drove and for the company, because all of a sudden it was really about the relationship. Not just theory, but it was about the relationship and the rest just came by serving.
Judy Hoberman [12:06]
Absolutely. And it’s funny when I first moved to Dallas, all the people that I met in the beginning, everybody said, I’m a servant leader. I’m a servant leader. I’m a servant leader. Now, I’m from up north, we don’t, we never use the term servant leader. This is you know, going back a decade. And after like the, I don’t know, the 10th person, the 12th person, I said. What is a servant leader? Everybody hears a servant leader. And the guy said to me, you don’t know what a servant leader is? And I said, I obviously not. And he tells him like, oh, I’ve been doing that my whole life. I just didn’t know we had a title, you know? And he said, Oh, you know, so it was funny, because if you’re a servant leader, you’re a servant leader. You don’t have to announce that you’re a servant leader.
Christine Schlonski [12:45]
Judy Hoberman [12:45]
And so that’s not part of me. I’m a servant leader. You know, it’s like on your resume. What’s your title? I’m a servant leader. That’s silly. So you wouldn’t I mean, it’s the same thing. You wouldn’t say I’m a go-giver, but yet you are. I mean, if that book is just so powerful, it just changes everything that you think or thought. And I mean, I’m telling you, everybody that I gave the book to them. I have never I’ve never read this book so fast. And I read it 10 times and so yeah.
Christine Schlonski [13:10]
Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for bringing that up. And, you know, again, one more thing where we are totally in alignment.
Judy Hoberman [13:17]
Christine Schlonski [13:18]
Though, another fun fact about you is you love the Beatles?
Judy Hoberman [13:21]
I do. I do. I love the Beatles. And I’m a huge fan.
Christine Schlonski [13:25]
Yeah, I love the Beatles, too. So it’s just so sometimes so funny like with some people, you could have conversations forever, and it never gets tired or boring. And you’re definitely one one of those people for me where it’s super excited. It’s exciting to talk about sales, to talk about what’s possible, right? If people do that, that idea to plant the seed that sales can be fun. Sales can be easy, it can be done gracefully, and you can do it with confidence. You can be authentic. You don’t need to be like “The Next Wolf of Wallstreet” or “Glengarry and Ross”, what are those “Boiler Room”? People you can just be you.
Judy Hoberman [14:08]
And you can love sales.
Christine Schlonski [14:09]
Yes. Exactly! You can love sales. Yeah, talking about that, what means Heart Sells for you?
Judy Hoberman [14:17]
So for me, it just means, you know, I have been selling probably 30 years of my life and I’ve never ever, ever, ever, ever sold a thing. And yet I was always the number one salesperson. And that’s because I never sold anything. I loved having conversations. I love giving people my opinion when they asked for it. I loved going back and forth and, and finding out what was important to them. It’s all about being Heart. It’s about that you really truly care about the person it’s per its you know, its people centric rather than product centric. And to me that’s more important than anything I can I can sell anything, but I don’t I don’t sell anything. I really don’t. I offer an opportunity for somebody to be part of. So, I just think that, you know, Heart Sales has to do with the fact that you’re not in and out, you know, slam bam. Thank you, ma’am. Get in, get out, get in the check. You know, that kind of nonsense. I don’t believe in that. And yeah, Glengarry Glen Ross is like the best example of not what to do.
Christine Schlonski [15:20]
Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. I remember like, you know, and most of the time, it’s the guys who are super excited about all these movies. And I remember when I started my sales career, like you got recommended movies, talking about it, so I felt like I had to watch it. Otherwise, I don’t even know what they talk about. And you just watch it like I remember starting with “Boiler Room” and then “Glengarry Glen Ross” what is this even? Right? I mean, that’s so outdated.
Judy Hoberman [15:51]
But it’s, but it’s the same thing today, though. The same thing is happening today.
Christine Schlonski [15:55]
Judy Hoberman [15:56]
Christine Schlonski [15:56]
And I think that therefore
Christine Schlonski [15:58]
People really need that different perspective, that movement that, you know, not just the two of us, but so many amazing people are creating. That you can sell this your heart, from your heart, Heart Sells! like whatever you want to call it. You can be authentic, you don’t even need to sell, you just need to invite.
Judy Hoberman [16:15]
Christine Schlonski [16:15]
That opportunity and everybody will feel great and you create a win win situation. And that’s when life business becomes so beautiful, because you have friends everywhere and clients and there’s not like this line in the middle of well that my friend never said friends and that’s my clients like everybody who gave me money for whatever I talk them into.
Judy Hoberman [16:41]
Now, I know when I first started in insurance, the very first day I went to the office, it was all men and me all men and talk about boiler room. So there was the the phone room and everybody was in there and it was so loud. It was so loud and you’d hear things like so how much money is in your checking account? When was the last time you went to the doctor? What medication are you on? blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I thought it was like bowling. Again, bowling, if you’re standing there with a ball, they stopped the people. Next you would stop and give you you know, the right of way. Well here, if you pick up the phone, it just gets louder. So I went to my manager, and I said to him, Okay, so here’s the deal. This is how I’m saying it, Tim, I’m there, like, hold 12 minutes. Here’s the deal. I said, I don’t think I can sell like this. I need to, I need a quiet space. And I need to be able to, you know, talk to people, and so on and so forth. But I’ll always have 20 appointments like you’re telling me, I will never come in with less than that, blah, blah, blah. He said, Well, here’s the deal, little lady, the first time you come in with less than 20 appointments is the time you’re out the door. That’s how I started my career. I don’t even know what made me say, other than I thought, well, there’s something here it sounds like a challenge to me. But you know, so it doesn’t have to be like that. I did everything from my house. I made more than 20 appointments a week I was very successful. And once they started to see that I was successful, then they’d say to me, what are you doing? How are you doing this how do you make so many sales? How do you, how is your business staying on the books? It was different because I was building relationships, even though I took longer, even though I asked a lot of questions. It was building a relationship. And that’s what sales are.
Christine Schlonski [18:13]
Yeah, I 100% agree. And I remember, you know, I started out in that big office space, it’s so hard to focus and concentrate. And so I got myself like a plant, I put it in front of me, I talked to the plant, so I would not be distracted with all the noise around me. And I that’s a big challenge. So I’m very happy that you were able to work from home.
Judy Hoberman [18:37]
It wasn’t easy.
Christine Schlonski [18:38]
Yeah. It’s like, Well, that didn’t work with this company. But yeah, nevertheless, I found my way through and yeah, still was able to create that massive success, but that challenge was a huge one. And I don’t see why you would put people through that. If there is another way.
Judy Hoberman [18:57]
Because that’s the way it’s always been done. There it is, right there. That’s the way it’s always been done. And it’s they’re successful doing it. So why change it? Like, why put money in something that there? That’s unknown? Why do you need to have a training program that talks about leadership? We’re fine the way we are. That’s the way it’s always been done.
Christine Schlonski [19:15]
Yeah. But you know, today we see that, you know, they make less revenue like some of them doesn’t don’t even exist anymore.
Judy Hoberman [19:24]
Christine Schlonski [19:24]
And, you know, people that put their hearts in, they have thriving businesses. I mean, you see that everywhere. And I’m so happy and amazed that this is actually a movement. And people are really looking for these leaders in that space. And that’s, that’s just beautiful. That tells me it’s time for change.
Judy Hoberman [19:44]
It is. And I still get that response when I talk about getting more women into leadership qualified women not just because they’re a woman, and I’ll hear. That’s so cute. A woman’s issue, like it is not a woman’s issue. It’s a business issue. And I oh, so cute. I like it, “Next”
Christine Schlonski [20:03]
Judy Hoberman [20:04]
Christine Schlonski [20:05]
Yeah, totally, totally. So do you have like a favorite mantra or quote that you like to use to motivate or inspire you?
Judy Hoberman [20:17]
Well, my favorite quote is my tagline, which is “Women want to be treated equally not identically” But it’s not a mantra and it doesn’t pump me up, you know, from what I need pumping up. Really what I do, I’m more of a music person. So when I’m driving, I play “Satisfaction” by the Rolling Stones. And it’s loud and people look at you and they stare or they look at you and they give you the thumbs up, because the windows are down and the sunroof is open, and it just pumps me up, right? So that’s what I’ll do before I go into an appointment, then I’m a little nervous about if I need to be calmed down. I play “Andrea Bocelli”, because it sounds like I’m driving through Italy. And I love that. So that’s what I do. I mean, I, you know, my there’s plenty of mantras that I could do, but I’m really, really more a music person, you just have to find whatever inspires you to do the great things.
Christine Schlonski [21:05]
Yeah, I love it. And yeah, let’s send people to your amazing mini guide, which does you while you say like scratches the surface but I think people get so much more when they understand the concept of “Selling In A Skirt” which I just love that brand. Yeah, tell us about what are people getting.
Judy Hoberman [21:25]
So it is a mini guide. And it is like a mini version of what we do in “Selling in a Skirt”. But it gives you all kinds of different activities and exercises and case studies where you can take it and implement it today because I think that’s the important part is being able to use something right away. Somebody said to me, I’m changing everything I do. Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Take one thing and and work on it and see how it works for you. But it’s been something that we’ve used for a while and everybody likes it. So for us, it’s, you know, just a great tool and you can get it at www.sellinginaskirt.com/special-offer.
Christine Schlonski [22:04]
Awesome. Well, thank you so, so much. And I definitely put everything in the show notes as well as all the links to us so people can connect. And again, I’m gonna say that again, like, connect with Judy, right? You will love to see her content. She’s really active on social media, you get like these little snippets of motivation and inspiration. So that’s, that’s definitely a person you want to be around if you want to up your sales game right? Because we all need these mentors, coaches, and people that inspire us. So we can get to that next level. So if you can’t afford the quote right now, is that not the time? You know, just connect and see what energy comes and maybe like one tip out of that little mini guide is going to give you the next sale, and then you’re in a different situation.
Judy Hoberman [22:53]
Christine Schlonski [22:54]
Awesome. Well, thank you so so much, Judy. I’m so honored that you took the time and shared so much wisdom And yeah, thank you so much.
Judy Hoberman [23:02]
Thank you. My pleasure.
Christine Schlonski [23:04]
I hope you can really take these concepts gorgeous and put them into action for you. How would it feel if you never, ever sell again in your whole life, and you just have fun conversations and you invite people and actually convert them as happy paying clients. I love what you did share in this episode and hope you got a ton out of it.
Christine Schlonski [23:26]
Just remember that you can change your attitude, you can change your point of view, you can change how you feel about selling in an instant. So in case you are not 100% confident and you still feel like selling might be something that sleazy or pushy. I hope this episode has inspired you and that you are changing your point of view. Hop on over to christineschlonski.com, find the podcast tab and Judy’s episodes with the keynotes, the transcripts. All the resources, we are talking about her amazing free gift and all the links to Judy are just one click away. And once you’re over there, sign up for the empowerment notes. That’s empowerment right into your inbox, where I am sharing with you all the updates on Heart Sells! Podcast as well as some really cool stuff that I usually do not share on social media. And you will always be the first ones to know as a member of the Heart Sells! Community. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for being here. Please share the podcast with a couple of your best friends that you think could be supported in learning how to sell with ease, grace and confidence. How to ask their price and how to really enjoy sales, having fun and growing a business. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.
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