Danny Iny is the founder and CEO of the online business education company Mirasee, whose work on strategy training won special recognition from Fast Company as a “World Changing Idea.”
He has been featured in the Harvard Business Review and Entrepreneur, and contributes regularly to publications including Inc., Forbes, and Business Insider.
He has spoken at institutions like Yale University and organizations like Google, and is the author of multiple best-selling books about online education, including his most recent, Leveraged Learning.
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Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
Website Copywriting: The 7 Essential Pages for Online Business Success by Danny Iny and Jim Hopkinson
3 Key Points:
- When it comes to acquiring real competence, that is usually going to be challenging. That’s why when you set out to create a course you want to ask yourself, not just what do I want them to know. You want to ask, how well do I want them to know it?
- A lot of online courses are basically glorified books. Their video, their fancy, whatever, but it’s just passive information that you can consume.
- We need to kind of shift our thinking in terms of what we’re creating, and what the experience is going to be like.
[05:43] The world works better when we help each other.
[11:03] You can kind of divide the resistance people have the idea of an online course into two categories. There’s the legitimate resistance where, you know, this learning experience just works better in person. That’s the case in certain instances. And then there’s the resistance that is just a function of inertia.
[14:00] We need to kind of shift our thinking in terms of what we’re creating, and what the experience is going to be like.
[14:53] A lot of online courses are basically glorified books. Their video, their fancy, whatever, but it’s just passive information that you can consume.
[17:57] Information is very good for integrating new knowledge into existing expertise. Information is really good for stretching the boundaries on your horizons. For helping you see possibilities you didn’t see before. Information is not good at making you competent at things that you weren’t competent at before. We don’t get good at things by reading books. We learn things, we don’t get good things.
[18:43] When it comes to acquiring real competence, that is usually going to be challenging. That’s why when you set out to create a course you want to ask yourself, not just what do I want them to know. You want to ask, how well do I want them to know it?
[20:57] Heart Sells! is about coming from a place of giving rather than taking. That’s about essentially what do you place first. You come into the selling conversation or the interaction, starting from a place of, “I need to make this sale. I need to generate revenue. I need to get this outcome.” Or do you start from a place of service of, “They need this outcome? They need to get this benefit. They need to solve this problem and go into that conversation as an advocate and guide working on their behalf.
For FULL Transcript click here:
Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi, Gorgeous! This is episode number 228 with the amazing Danny Iny.
Danny Iny [0:08]
Hi, this is Danny Iny and you’re listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.
Christine Schlonski [0:13]
I am super delighted to have Danny Iny on the show today. He is the founder and CEO of the online business education company Mirasee, whose work on strategy training won special recognition from Fast Company as a world-changing idea. And we will be also talking about, Teach Your Gift, which is the name of his brand new book. And I already had a sneak preview. This book is on my desk and I’m so super excited that I already had the chance to have a read and highly recommended. Danny has been featured in the Harvard Business Review on the entrepreneur and contributes regularly to publication Including Inc, Forbes, and the Business Insider. He’s also spoken at institutions like Yale University and organizations like Google. And he is the author of multiple best selling books. And I’m quite sure that Teach Your Gift will be another one of these. So have fun in this episode and learn why teaching your gift is such an important topic. Well, I am so super excited to have you on the show today, Danny, welcome.
Danny Iny [1:32]
Thank you. I’m really excited to be here.
Christine Schlonski [1:34]
I know. We inspire entrepreneurs all over the world to really understand sales as something that’s positive, that can be fun, and that they should make because otherwise if they don’t sell, they don’t have a business, they have a hobby. Your story is quite remarkable. I just want to go back a little bit in time and tell us when you started from scratch with no audience, no connections, no traffic. What did you do to get these amazing results that you’re going to talk about? I’m just seeing 4 million annual revenue in just five years. So how do you get there?
Danny Iny [2:18]
Alright, you want to go straight to the most fun part of the story. So the backstory is that I’ve been an entrepreneur for, I like to say longer than my adult life. I quit school when I was 15 to start my first business. This call of 2007, it was my last big attempt at like, I’m going to build a big startup and raise money and investors and all that kind of stuff. And we were building software teaches kids how to read and it’s something that I’m still very passionate about. And we raised some money and we had a prototype and a team and people the experts loved it. The kids loved it. So we got this, you know, early Running Start. And to make a long story short, I was a very young and very inexperienced CEO in what in hindsight is one of the most complicated industries on the face of the earth. And by the time I figured out how I needed to adjust my plan to make it work, September 2008, rolled around, the markets crashed, and it was just game over. My investors were mostly friends and family, I wasn’t comfortable going to them and saying, look, sorry, you know, your money is gone. So I took a lot of those losses on myself. So I walked away from that with about a quarter of a million dollars in debt. That was a bad financial moment for me. But it’s also very tough personally. So, anyone who’s listening to this, who’s had a business kind of implode on you, you know that it feels a lot like going through a really bad breakup, right? It’s just, it’s tough. And after you go through a really bad breakup, you’re not ready to start dating again, right away. You need to like lick your wounds for a little bit. So in much the same way I was thinking, you know, I still have bills to pay so I need to do something that people will pay me for, but what can I do that doesn’t involve hiring a lot of people or raising money. What can I do that would be like a casual on the side kind of business? I was looking for like my rebound business. And so I thought, well, you know, I’ve learned a lot about marketing and strategy, I can create a blog, and I’ll teach about that. I’ll write about that. Maybe that’ll lead to online courses or something. And one thing just kind of led to another. I was teaching stuff that people really wanted in a voice that seemed to resonate with at least a segment of the market. And here we are, you know, 10 or so years later, and yeah, it’s a multi-million dollar company. And ironically, I have a team of a couple of dozen people. Sometimes the rebound turns out to be the one.
Christine Schlonski [4:37]
Yeah, awesome. And that also explains why in all of the amazing books you’ve written and published, it includes a children’s book because that’s where you started, right?
Danny Iny [4:47]
Well, it’s because that’s where I started and there’s actually a funny story behind that. So you know, I’ve written a lot of books for I was gonna say adult books, but not adult books. They’re just their books for grown-ups. But, you know, I’d written all these grown-up books about business and marketing and that sort of stuff. And I was just walking down the street in my neighborhood, like, you know, a block away from my house. And there’s this woman and her son, they were riding their bikes down the street, and she, I guess she hit something, but she like flips over her bike and falls down on the ground. And so, you know, I ran over there to help and a few other neighbors went over there to help and we called an ambulance. And, you know, she ended up being fine. She broke her arm or something, she needed the cast. But, you know, the boy who was doing a really good job of keeping his cool, he was like, 10 years old or something. At some point, he’s like, you know, this mom is getting in the ambulance. He’s thanking all of us for helping. And I told him, of course, you know, the world works better when we help each other. And I don’t know where that came from. It just kind of stuck with me. And it occurred to me, it’s like, that’s something I’d want to share with, with my kids. And, you know, I just kind of put it aside because I don’t write children’s books. I write grownup books and they have a business to run but kept coming back in my mind and so, you know, a few months later, I sat down with my team I said, “Let’s write this book.” And that became the children’s book, The World Works Better.
Christine Schlonski [6:08]
I love that. What a great story. But you have a brand new book out, teach your gift, which that title is amazing, because so many people have amazing gifts, but they don’t know how to give it to the world. While I teach them how to sell, so they have a business, you teach them how to approach their gift in a way that they can teach it to others and, and create an amazing business out of it. Tell us about that book. It’s so exciting. It’s for coaches, consultants, authors, speakers, experts, so basically our audience and talks about creating online courses and business success and not only just 2020 but beyond. So that’s what we need.
Danny Iny [6:56]
Well, thank you for asking. So you know, I’ve written, this is probably depending on how you count. Like my third or fourth book about the world of online courses. I’ve been teaching in the space for seven or eight years now. And I’ve written a bunch of books, and I’ve worked with a lot of people. And what I noticed is that Lately, I’ve been having a lot of conversations with a very high caliber of students. So if I go back, six, seven years, the world of online courses was very new. And a lot of the people, not all, but a lot of the people who came to me were kind of business opportunity seekers, they were like, how do I make money online? I’ve heard that online courses are a good way of making money online. And, you know, I would always roll my eyes at that. And the people I’ve had the privilege of working with have been kind of real value-driven experts in their field. But the people who tend to approach me these days, they tend to be very well qualified, successful people in their field. So it’s less about, I’m trying to figure out how to pay my mortgage and you know, maybe I can build an online course it’s more about, you know, I have the successful multi six-figure consultancy. And I’m thinking of reaching more people through an online course. And that’s great. So those are exactly the people I love to work with. And so I’d asked, tell me what you’re thinking already. And then they’d share kind of their plans and their impressions. And it’s like, it’s all based on a playbook that’s like five years out of date. And the reality is that the world of online courses has changed a lot over its lifetime, but especially over the last few years. And so I kind of wrote this book to talk about how things work now, what is the landscape like now? What is the opportunity like now? It’s not the same as it was five or 10 years ago? That’s why I wrote the book, which is Teach Your Gift, it’s now out in the world.
Christine Schlonski [8:40]
Yeah, it’s awesome. What I love is that all the updates are included of what you need to know today to make a course creation successful, that you don’t get hung up and outdated information. Because you know, I mean, reaching your market today is probably more challenging than ever. But it’s also more important than ever because people are really seeking to improve, some have to relearn, they have to find different positions, or they have to become an entrepreneur, and some, have just outdated material that needs to be updated. I think it’s for everybody, the book, everybody can really benefit from reading it. And I just want to invite people to get that chance and it’s brand new on the market. I’m gonna link it into the show notes as well. So people don’t miss it. And yeah, so why do you think an online course is so important for business? You kind of mentioned it, but you know, you are the pro so really point that out so people get the understanding why moving now is important and not to wait another five or 10 years.
Danny Iny [9:58]
Yeah, absolutely. We’re in a very special, very interesting moment in time, both in terms of the evolution of the landscape of the online course, but also, you know, as we record this, we’re in the middle of a global pandemic. And that has had a really interesting effect on this industry of just accelerating changes that were already underway. There’s been this process, this is how any, any idea opportunity kind of enters the market, it starts with innovators and early adopters, and eventually, it gets a certain critical mass and it kind of goes into the mainstream. That was just starting to happen before the Coronavirus pandemic hit. And you know, whereas the natural evolution would have been for it to take years for people to kind of like gradually come on board. Basically, everyone has to get on board in the course of two or three weeks, right, everyone who’s like, I would never teach an online course, I would never take an online course like over the course of three weeks or like I’ve got to figure out how to do that. So I’ve got to do this right now. So a lot of these trends have accelerated a lot, and I don’t think this is going to roll back when the pandemic ends, because you know, there, you can kind of divide the resistance people have the idea of an online course into two categories. There’s the legitimate resistance where, you know, this learning experience just works better in person. That’s the case in certain instances. And then there’s the resistance that is just a function of inertia. It’s not what I’m used to, I haven’t done this before. It’s not comfortable. Not because they wouldn’t be good. Just they haven’t tried it. And every one who wouldn’t do it because they just aren’t comfortable. I haven’t tried it. They’ve been pushed into the deep end. And so all of that resistance is gone. And most of them are going to wake up and be like, actually, this is pretty good. This works really well. So this is a very special and opportune moment in time. It’s a moment where the market has suddenly exploded, the number of people looking to buy has suddenly exploded, because you’ve kind of got two categories of courses. You’ve got the courses that are mandatory. Like a business has to take it because there’s compliance or regulatory reasons, or it’s mandatory because you need an outcome. If I don’t train my salespeople on how to sell, and I’m not making sales, and I’m out of business, like, that’s mandatory, I need that. If you’re delivering an outcome that people need, then you know, the demand for that is just as high or higher. And then there are all the online courses that are, let’s call them volitional or discretionary. It’s, you know, I do it because I’m interested, I’m curious, I want to learn this. And all of a sudden, people have mountains of free time that they’ve got to do something with and so, you know, across the board, the demand for online courses is going up. And this is at a time when a lot of businesses are facing a lot of very legitimate pressure. So a lot of entrepreneurs are kind of thinking, How can I innovate? How can I reach people in a way that doesn’t involve being in front of them, that’s the biggest constraint that a lot of people are facing right now. And you know, even after we get to a point in time where we can be in front of people, it’s still nice to have the option of helping them without having to be there.
Christine Schlonski [13:01]
Yeah, yeah, I just love this model. That’s why I’m so fascinated with an online business. Because you can just sit at home, you can connect with amazing people from all around the world. You can study or learn something whenever you feel like it. It’s just one click away. And I think that’s, that’s a very beautiful world. It’s going on your schedule. And yeah, I love online courses. And I also know that there is a challenge to follow through by yourself. What kind of advice would you give someone who wants to create an online course? What do they need to think of that would help the people they created to get better results and actually going through the course and finishing it?
Danny Iny [13:51]
It’s a really good question. The completion rates on most conventional online courses are abysmally poor there. They’re in the single digits. We need to kind of shift our thinking in terms of what we’re creating, and what the experience is going to be like. So there’s kind of this, there’s been this fork of, you know, the world of online courses and the two different brackets. So they’re the information courses, right? And that’s the, you know, if we go with the traditional, real-world archetype of an information product, it’s a book, right? You go to a bookstore, you find the book that purports to have the information that you’re looking to learn. You take that book to the register, you pay for it, typically not a lot of money, because the incremental cost of printing one more book of replicating that information is very low. And once you pay for it, and you walk out of that bookstore, nobody owes you anything. Not the bookstore owner, not the author, not the publisher. You’re on your own. And that’s exactly what we see with a lot of online courses. A lot of online courses are basically glorified books. Their video, their fancy, whatever, but it’s just passive information that you can consume. And you know, the statistics are that you know, most books that are, I think 90% of books that are purchased are not read past the first chapter. We kind of see something similar with online courses. A lot of people buy it. And the reason for that is that you know, a book or a course is an aspirational purchase. When we buy a book, it’s almost like a mental bookmark saying, I want to know this, I want to be the kind of person who does know this. But you know, having that aspiration having the time and energy and diligence to actually go through it are two different things. That’s why many of us have a lot of books on our Kindle that we haven’t read yet. It’s easier to buy a book than to read a book. The same is true for an online course. So in that information, only space, you know, that’s not an ideal outcome, but it’s okay because information only courses, they’re cheap, just like books. So in just like when you buy a book, you don’t kick yourself too much for not having read it, you’re like I’ll get to it later. The same goes to find information on the course. But then there’s another tier of courses where you’re delivering more than just information, you’re delivering education, you’re delivering transformation. And the real-world archetype of that would be a course at a university. All right, so you enroll in that university course, you’re going to pay a lot more money than you would for a book in the bookstore.
Christine Schlonski [16:14]
Especially in the US.
Danny Iny [16:17]
Especially in the US, but everywhere. In some parts of the world that might be subsidized, like the government is paying for it. But the cost of that experience is high. And you’re right in the US, it’s insane. And there’s educational inflation and market forces that are a broader thing going on. But anyway, the cost is higher because you’ve got to pay the salary of the professor, you’ve got to pay for the teaching assistants. There’s an infrastructure that costs money to deliver that experience. And you still have to do the work. You can enroll for a university course or not show up and not do any work and you’re going to fail, and nobody will care. But if you show up, if you do the work, it is legitimate for you to expect that the professor will help you succeed, that the teaching assistants will help you succeed, that the institution will help you succeed. It is legitimate for you to expect them to be accountable for supporting you in gaining this outcome. In the world of online courses, that’s where we see courses that are not just information, they’re not just low dollar, you’re spending more money, you’re investing more to get the outcome and you expect more to be put on the table. If you charge $1,000 $2,000, for a course, that’s just a bunch of videos and a membership site, and they’re on their own, like, that’s not a business model that continues to be viable, because, you know, you’re going to see downward pressure from, you know, comparable experts, or frankly, more qualified and more celebrity type experts on platforms like Udemy and platforms like masterclass where you know, you can get a great course for 50 or 100 bucks and maybe you do something with it, maybe you don’t, but the information is good and it’s very entertainingly delivered. But you can’t take a course on a masterclass or on Udemy or creative live and expect a significant transformation. That’s a big difference. Information is very good for integrating new knowledge into existing expertise. Information is really good for stretching the boundaries on your horizons. For helping you see possibilities you didn’t see before. Information is not good at making you competent at things that you weren’t competent at before. We don’t get good at things by reading books. We learn things, we don’t get good things. For me, to acquire that ability more has to be baked into the picture. That’s where getting people through the course is a big part of it. Because, you know, for me to explain something interesting to you. You know, as long as I do a good job delivery, it’s like, it’s like watching a movie. Some people watch it, some people don’t. But, you know, it’s not that hard to sit through a movie, even if it’s not the most interesting movie. But when it comes to acquiring real competence, that is usually going to be challenging. That’s why when you set out to create a course you want to ask yourself, not just what do I want them to know? Do you want to ask how well do I want them to know it? Right, because I could teach an I mean, I couldn’t but someone could teach a course. It’s like 30 minutes long on the story of Hamlet, and you watch the course and you’re like, you come out and you’re like, I know the gist of the story of Hamlet. You can’t watch a course like that and then be able to perform Hamlet well. That takes a lot more work and practice and feedback. If you’re trying to help them accomplish something challenging, you need to bake in the support and guidance and everything else along the way that will help them actually do that.
Christine Schlonski [19:24]
Yeah. Wow. That’s probably what people really need to think about when they go to that endeavor. And it’s also how do they choose a person that they can learn from how to build courses, and obviously, you want to go to someone who has an amazing success record, and who really, really shows people how to do that. And it’s not just your book. I mean, your whole company is about helping people to create courses and does everything they can get by learning from you. They will be set up for an absolute high-level online course, which will serve their audience in the best way possible. I just love how that goes kind of hand in hand, how you write about course creation, how you teach course creation, how your whole company is set up for course creation. When we see that level of expertise, we also know that you only get there by having invested so many hours, like 10, you know, at least 10,000 to go to mastery. And I just love that I’m super excited about your new book. That’s out now. So people can get their hands on that. So let me ask you what means Heart Sells! for you?
Danny Iny [20:46]
I love that question. And from my perspective, and I know that you asked this of everyone who comes on the show and I imagine you get a different answer, but from my perspective, Heart Sells! is about coming from a place of giving rather than taking. That’s about essentially what do you place first. You come into the selling conversation or the interaction, starting from a place of, “I need to make this sale. I need to generate revenue. I need to get this outcome.” Or do you start from a place of service of, “They need this outcome? They need to get this benefit. They need to solve this problem and go into that conversation as an advocate and guide working on their behalf.
Christine Schlonski [21:29]
Yeah, wonderful explanation and I feel it’s the same. It’s true for you. How you teach people to create courses is exactly was that mindset, how they can serve in a much better way. I believe that money follows success. The more successful you can make your tribe, the more money you will earn at the end of the day.
Danny Iny [21:51]
Christine Schlonski [21:52]
to Amazing. Where can we send people to learn more? Are we just going to just send them to Amazon or I mean, obviously, you get your book.
Danny Iny [22:05]
You can certainly go to Amazon. As the saying goes, the very best way to buy the book is in bulk, many, many copies. So you can do that.
Unknown Speaker [22:18]
But we’re, we’re doing a whole bunch of fun stuff around the book launch. And so you know, there’ll be special promotions and free content. So the best place to go to know what is current and what is the best opportunity available is teachergiftbook.com.
Christine Schlonski [22:33]
Awesome. I’m going to put that in the show notes as well. teachergiftbook.com. No, you say it again.
Danny Iny [22:40]
teachergiftbook.com. It sounds like maybe I should have chosen a simpler URL.
Christine Schlonski [22:46]
Yeah, well, sorry. I should have asked you before. I would have had it in the notes.
Danny Iny [22:52]
Now that we’ve said it like four or five times, so it’s perfect for everyone to remember, teachergiftbook.com.
Christine Schlonski [22:58]
Thank you so much. Well, time just flies. I’m so happy we have another opportunity to go deeper. And thank you so much for your time today. And yeah, can’t wait to have you back on Heart Sells! Podcast.
Danny Iny [23:10]
I can’t wait to be back. And thank you so much for having me.
Christine Schlonski [23:13]
Well, I just loved hearing the insight from Danny how things are working now because as he said, the landscape of online courses, of online teaching has changed over the last couple of years. So it’s really important to know what we can do now to support other people. What we can do now to get our gifts out into the world so other people can learn from us. Consume our content in a way that’s easy and fun, and that’s well packaged, but are not overwhelming. Hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/. find the show notes, the transcripts and all the links to Danny, the link to his amazing book, Teach Your Gift, and once you over there, don’t forget to sign up for the empowerment notes. So you get empowerment right into your inbox. Last but not least, the fourth edition of the sales mentality makeover master class has just opened up for registration. We are going live with the interviews on May 18. That means, each and every day there will be four classes with amazing teachers that will be online and you can watch them consume the content, take notes, take action on all different kinds of amazing, amazing speakers teaching spiritual and practical steps to increase your sales and create true wealth without losing authenticity. Hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/ and you will find that in the tap, the podcast tab, and the masterclass tab, and I hope you’re having a ton of fun with the podcasts and the class and that it really gives you like the boosts you need in your business. This right now to really make that difference and to show up for your tribe as the leader. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.
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