Podcast

226 Permission to Say No with Dr. Shannon Tran

Dr. Shannon Tran helps ambitious professionals become well balanced so they can achieve without burnout.

She helps them embody their values and remove subconscious beliefs and patterns that lead to burning out.

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  • We need more of this...
    by Stu Schaefer from United States

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Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Book: Your Life PhD: 5 Steps for Being Loved for WHO You Are Instead of What You DO

Run Your Own Race: How to beat depression and enjoy your life

How to Say No and Feel Good About it: Proven Strategies to Effectively Communicating Your Needs

Making Happiness Last: How to Beat Depression and Enjoy Your Life

Free Gift: Success Rituals

3 Key Points:

  • You need to get clear on where you want to go. Because then those are the topics that you want to discuss with people that you want to spend time with. You don’t get to mastery by just reading a book once or talking about the topic once. It’s like reinforcing and learning over long time periods.
  • Sometimes the work that we have to do is just noticing how often we say yes, noticing how often we say no.
  • To be able to say no, we need to know what we desire so we can make that decision in the first place.

Show Notes:

[03:10] The first time you ask yourself what you want, it’s probably going to be other people’s expectations, what you should do, what society tells you what, your parents tell you, what your work tells you, what your partner tells you, what your what you think you should do as a parent.

[04:37] That’s the cost of knowing what you want. That there’s some grief or some loss that’s going to happen. But if you’ve done the work, then it’s chosen. You’re choosing to let it go. So it’s coming from a powerful place.

[06:43] You need to get clear on where you want to go. Because then those are the topics that you want to discuss with people that you want to spend time with. You don’t get to mastery by just reading a book once or talking about the topic once. It’s like reinforcing and learning over long time periods.

[08:12] Sometimes the work that we have to do is just noticing how often we say yes, noticing how often we say no.

[10:25] To be able to say no, we need to know what we desire so we can make that decision in the first place.

[15:29] When you value yourself, then you give others permission to value you.

[18:45] When we talk about wealth creation, people think of money first, but that’s not true.

[19:17] True wealth is the freedom to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, how I want to do it, with whom I want to do it

Transcript:

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Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey, Gorgeous! This is episode number 226.

Dr. Shannon Tran [0:06]
Hi, there! This is Dr. Shannon Tran. You are listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:15]
Well, I am so super pumped to have Shannon back on the show today with the topic of permission to say no. This is such an important topic. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you got a lot of value out of her last interview where we talked about internal creation with balance and harmony. And yeah, where we really went deep why this is important and what can help you to prevent some kind of burnout. Dr. Shannon Tran helps ambitious professionals become well balanced so they can achieve anything without burnout. She helps them to embody their values and remove subconscious beliefs and patterns that are leading to burnout. You’re in the right place, because today, it’s all about no set boundaries, the permission to say no. And how you will achieve more by being able to use that simple word, No. Which by the way, is a full sentence. Have fun versus episodes. And I’m excited that you’re here. Thank you so much for tuning in. Well, I’m so super excited to have you back on the show, Shannon, welcome.

Dr. Shannon Tran [1:25]
Thank you. It’s great to be back.

Christine Schlonski [1:27]
Yeah, I just loved our first conversation. There were so many golden nuggets of how to become more confident when it comes to money, when it comes to business, how to grow and not, not stop growing, and really have your life Ph.D. So I love that. And I love all the success that you created for yourself in the last years, realizing that you just need to get really, really clear on what your desires are and then just going for that. I know that many, many people, they know what they don’t want, but they don’t really know what they want. Can you tell us a little bit about what you did to figure out that piece for you?

Dr. Shannon Tran [2:16]
Yeah, so a couple of things, with all success, I think what people don’t see behind the scenes is there are failures, right?

Christine Schlonski [2:23]
Yes.

Dr. Shannon Tran [2:23]
And you have to get through your failures to get to the next level of success. So one failure was lack of clarity. I didn’t know what I wanted. In fact, I didn’t realize just how much of a people pleaser I was, and how it was living other people’s agenda. And so what the first step that helped me if you’re someone who doesn’t know what you want, or what you want, is know what you don’t want. Right like that. That eliminates half of it right there. Well, I don’t want that. I don’t want that. Well, what would I want? And, like the work with this is if you’re someone that struggles with self-doubt or just there are too many options, there’s gonna be a little bit of work that needs to be done because it’s going to take you time to figure that out. Because the probably the first time you ask yourself what you want, it’s probably going to be other people’s expectations, what you should do, what society tells you what, your parents tell you, what your work tells you, what your partner tells you, what you think you should do as a parent, like the shoulds. And the expectations will be the first round that comes up. And so then it’s going through some really powerful questions to drill down into the core and it could be just starting with simple things like, “Okay, well, what are my top five values? Or what’s most important to me? Or if I could only, you know, live 24 hours. I had one day left, how would I spend it?” Well, that’s a quick way to give you clarity because what that means anything you wouldn’t be doing is probably BS. Even in your relationship, like you could start there. Because when I started to really look at my relationships and get honest with myself and say, “Okay, look at the people I spend time with, does this person bring out the best in me? Or the worst for me? Is this person adding value to my life? Am I adding value to my life? What was my experience with this person?” Because we become like the five people we spend the most time with. So I just started, it’s like, I’m not gonna lie, like it was painful, right? Because it means either you’re reducing time with those people or you’re eliminating them from your life. When you gain clarity like that’s the cost of clarity. That’s the cost of knowing what you want is that there’s some grief or some loss that that’s going to happen. But if you’ve done the work, then it’s chosen, right? You’re choosing to let it go. And so it’s coming from a powerful place. Does that answer the question in terms of like, what are some things you can do?

Christine Schlonski [4:53]
Totally and yeah, I would love to dive into it even a little bit deeper. Because when I realized that I had to reduce time with some people or maybe like, you know, reduce time to zero. I let them go. And that’s a really painful process especially, you know if you are a people pleaser, or if you are like a real loyal person, right? So when I connect with someone, I’m like, I’m a loyal person. So I make sure they are taken care of I, you know, I make sure that we are connecting. And for some people, I realized that all the work in the relationship came from my site. Like let’s have set up a call, let’s set up a meeting, let’s go for coffee, come to my birthday party, like all of the stuff, and they didn’t put a lot of effort in, which then kind of got out of balance. And when once I learned the concept, it was you know, really eye-opening. And as you said, you become the average of the five-person you surround yourself with. And I’ve got really, really clear in who brings joy into my life. Who helps me to raise my frequency, my vibe, who helps me to grow. Some relationships are you know, not that, well, how do I want to work this? Peaceful? Because some people will help you to trigger so you can grow and you see what you don’t want to see.

Dr. Shannon Tran [6:29]
Yeah, and that could be grown.

Christine Schlonski [6:32]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. But most of the time, you know, it’s not always nice, but if it helps you, then that still can be a good relationship. But you need to get clear on where you want to go. Because then those are the topics that you want to discuss with people that you want to spend time with. You don’t get to mastery by just you know, reading a book once, or talking about the topic once. It’s like reinforcing and learning over long time periods.

Dr. Shannon Tran [7:04]
That’s a good point and in terms of going deeper even. Because I was a pretty big people pleaser, right? Because for a lot of you know, this is pi common for women like our

Christine Schlonski [7:12]
Oh yeah, for women

Dr. Shannon Tran [7:13]
Get along with people. And then I didn’t realize just how deep like there were layers to it. And so recently I went to even recently, I felt like, “Wow, I’ve done so much work. I’ve got this cover”, and was interesting because the body doesn’t lie. Recently, I went to a leadership training, it was all about embodied leadership. And they would have us go through different physical exercises to see how our body shows up in interactions. So one was even like using some kind of like a punching bag, it wasn’t a punching bag, but just that’s the best visual I can give. And they would have a say yes, and punch in the no. Well, interestingly, my nose was kind of weak. And I thought, “Wow, that’s fascinating.” Like, even though I’ve worked on my mindset and my body is still there. I was realizing how, even then I needed to be working on my no, like, “What am I saying yes to? And what am I saying no to? And in what, in what situations?” And so, sometimes the work that we have to do is just noticing how often we say yes, noticing how often we say no. I like to ask myself powerful questions when helping myself gain clarity like this. So one could, when I’m interacting with people, sometimes I’ll just ask myself, “What is this person offering me?” And then I just kind of let wisdom answer right. And sometimes it’s just, “Oh, they’re offering the solution. Wow, they’re genuine” Sometimes they’ll get the answer. Like, no, they’re offering me a guilt trip. I’m not gonna like right now. They’re offering me like they’re trying to control me. And, but that’s part of getting the clarity and making the decision of, do I really want this person in my life. And I think when we ask questions like that we and we start to value our time too and who we are, it becomes easier to set limits. At least in my experience, right?

Christine Schlonski [9:02]
Yeah, totally. So speaking of no, I learned a while ago, not a long, long time ago, but some years ago, that no is a full sentence.

Dr. Shannon Tran [9:15]
Yes. Correct.

Christine Schlonski [9:17]
I found very powerful, because oftentimes we say no, or we come up with like a long-winded excuse to say no, just because we try to get better in saying No,

Dr. Shannon Tran [9:29]
exactly. We think we have to justify or explain our no. And giving ourselves permission to say, that doesn’t work. And what I’ve done like if I’ve needed to work up to it, because for some people, they’re so afraid to say no, I’ll give them phrases to help close the gap, which is that doesn’t work for me. You know, a little softer approach for some people where it’s hard to say no, but you know, that doesn’t work for me. And boy, that has helped me so much in terms of not going down the wrong path. I mean, it’s helped me like, make better choices on my schedule, the hours I’m available, not available, the projects I take on. It’s just, it’s so powerful. It is so powerful. I love that you’re sharing this because we need to be able to have access to our notes to get the clarity for what we want and to give ourselves permission to say no.

Christine Schlonski [10:23]
Totally, yeah. And to be able to say no, we need to know what we desire. So we can make that decision in the first place. So what would be really interesting for people because obviously, you’ve run your own business and you have conversations? How do you deal when getting a no after you made an offer?

Dr. Shannon Tran [10:43]
If I’m making an offer and someone says no to my offer? For me, I’m I’ve learned not to take it personally because I’m really coming from the place, interesting. Where’s the no coming from? Because quite frankly, sometimes the no is just I’m not ready. I’m afraid. Is it a no for now? Is that what is? Actually, let me give an example because I think it really helps to see the conversation really has in terms of just heart selling. I was making an offer to someone, for someone that I closed for, that I sell for. This is actually a perfect example here. She was about to say yes to my offer, which Yay, right? Like, I made a sound yay for me. But as we were talking, I noticed that she tends to do that. She tends to always say Yes, she’s afraid to say no. So I asked her, I said, “Can I ask you something before we get your credit card here.” She said, “Sure.” I said, “Are you just saying yes to me right now because you’re afraid to say no to me?” And she said, “Yes.” I said, “I’m not going to sell you. I’m removing this offer from the table. Because I think right now the best gift I can give you is permission to say no to me. You don’t have to say yes”, because that was her default. That was so empowering for her. And honestly, it was worth more than whatever money she was going to give me. Because being able to give someone an empower them to say no, at that moment, she needed that. She needed that more than I mean, that was the transformation for her. That hour well spent for both of us and it felt so good for me to give that to her. And so, so in those moments, like when if I get a no, I mean, does it hurt sometimes? Sure, because no one likes to be told no, right. Like, it’s sometimes it can feel like, “Oh, man”, it can eat away a little bit at your confidence. I’m not gonna lie as it can. And so it’s important to really like, come from a place of, I’m giving, it’s okay, if this person is saying no, and it’s coming from the right place for them. And if they’re saying no for the wrong reason, I’m going to challenge them and find out the truth. And if they’re saying yes, for the wrong reason, I want to know that too, right.

Christine Schlonski [12:59]
Yeah, and mean how you said no. Does it mean not now? That’s what I always say, no means not now, it doesn’t mean no, forever. It’s also important to figure out, what’s the reason behind it. Because sometimes like when somebody is just afraid, but you know, exactly they need it, you have to provide them with a certain level of confidence to make a decision that really helps them to be empowered because when they leave the conversation, they still carry that big challenge with them. It didn’t go away just because they had a clarity call or strategy session or however you want to call it. If you can’t help them to figure it out, they probably go somewhere else because they need to have it figured out.

Dr. Shannon Tran [13:45]
Exactly. Exactly.

Christine Schlonski [13:48]
Awesome. So what do you do then for harmony and balance in your life today?

Dr. Shannon Tran [13:57]
So a couple of things. One is, I paced myself. So before, so I kind of like look at my calendar and I look at it in my quarterly. Every quarterly, regularly but especially quarterly, I will map out time for myself. So time like, in fact, you know, I just, I’m just setting up to go to Hawaii because prices are so great right now with this virus.

Christine Schlonski [14:24]
Wow. You just give me ideas.

Dr. Shannon Tran [14:27]
No, it’s insane. I can go to Hawaii for like 300 bucks. That’s my gift to myself. It’s crazy. It’s insane. I really spend time rejuvenating myself. I get messages now. That’s the thing, I think we talked about on our last episode about when you value yourself, you treat yourself differently. So things that I wouldn’t allow myself I’m a much better receiver. I receive rest. I say for me to rest, I allow myself to rest so I get massages, go for walks, I’ll just have downtime. Because I listen to my body better. I like to schedule quarterly things, you know, to just rejuvenate, to have that balance. I do meditation every day, mostly. And I just have certain practices that I engage in, you know, play with my cats. They, they’re just very relaxing to me. So it’s, it’s what I found is I knew as you’re getting clarity and you know what you like to do I give myself permission to do those things, and just take care of myself and I don’t overwork myself.

Christine Schlonski [15:26]
Yeah, yeah. I love that. I think it’s so important. When you value yourself, then you give others permission to value you. I think that’s a very important piece, especially in businesses. I heard so many stories where people have just run themselves into the ground. I always say, “Well, if your cup isn’t full, like how can you give?”

Dr. Shannon Tran [15:48]
And how can you give quality right? I know. Like, when I’ve been exhausted, I’m just not present. Like I’m just sort of there but there’s nothing there. Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [15:56]
Can you share with us, maybe a book that has made a big impact on your life? I know you’ve read a ton of books, but what comes to mind that you can share, that really has influenced your life in a big way?

Dr. Shannon Tran [16:14]
I have so many books and I love so many books, it’s tough. For whatever reason, as it depends on. So first I’ll preface it by saying it depends on what you want to work on, like where you’re at and what you need to work on. If you’re someone who wants to, like needs to work on your habits and the way you think and just your practice habits, the book, Habits by Duhigg, love it. If you’re someone who and this was a part of our conversation earlier if you’re someone who struggles in your relationships, and you’re a giver, and you tend to attract takers, or you don’t know how to set healthy boundaries is Adam. Adam Grant, I think his name, he wrote the book, Give and Take, and I love that book. It was for like businesses, but in there, it’s really about on a personal level. And he talks, he groups people into three types, givers, takers, and matches. And what happens is if you’re a giver, and you don’t have good boundaries, you’re often gonna attract takers. And that’s when you get into these depleted relationships. That you’re doing all the work and they’re doing all the taking, and he empowers people. It’s like, how do you, what’s the language of a healthy giver? So he actually looked at success rates and found that people who are the most successful are givers, but those people that are the least successful are also givers. And so the difference was, having healthy boundaries, knowing your priorities, and then how do you deal with takers a mattress so that would be a book I would totally recommend because it can help you on so many different levels, mindset, healthy relationships, success, so I would start with that.

Christine Schlonski [17:51]
Love it. Love it. Thank you. And can you share your favorite mantra or inspirational quote and I’m sure you have many too? But just the first thing that comes to mind.

Dr. Shannon Tran [18:04]
The one that I wrote in my five-minute gratitude journal was and it could change with the one I’m playing with today is, “I am profitable in all my relationships and endeavors.” And right, and so what that means is like, I’m expecting good things from it, it’s a win-win. Because I’m profitable. profitable doesn’t have to mean money. It means it’s like it’s profitable in some way, either emotionally, and I’m receiving something from it. I’m giving. So I like to play with that because it reminds me it’s like, no, I can find the win in any situation. It’s rough. I’m expecting a positive expectancy. So that’s the thing with lately,

Christine Schlonski [18:42]
That’s beautiful. And it’s so true. I mean, when we talk about wealth creation, people think of money first, but that’s not true.

Dr. Shannon Tran [18:52]
It comes from the inside.

Christine Schlonski [18:54]
Exactly. It’s like how, what can you experience in your life? What can you do? What can you give? Who can you be? I mean, just scheduling a trip to Hawaii because there’s a great opportunity, you know, taking care of that and not worrying about other stuff because you can just move it around your schedule. That’s true wealth is really, for me true wealth is the freedom to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, how I want to do it, with whom I want to do it. That does require a certain level of financial freedom to be able to say yes to things you have to pay for. But that’s like, that’s the idea of true wealth. It doesn’t need to be the billionaire or the multimillionaire. What do you need to be able to pay for all these opportunities coming your way that you want to say yes to.

Dr. Shannon Tran [19:49]
And it usually comes to who do you need to be there because usually like I’ve seen people have a lot of money and they’re emotionally poor. And so it’s all about because money is just buying experience or a feeling, so you, literally I can get up right now whatever feeling I want to have, I can create it internally and then, “Okay, how could I, how can I bring value to someone?”, and, and either it can come back to me in the form of, “Hey, I’ll get an email from the airlines. Cheap tickets. Great! I can afford that”, or I can make a sell or I can create other opportunities for that experience to come in. And sometimes I think we could just get only focused on the money, but the opportunities can come in many forms. New friendships, new partnerships. So I really like to think of wealth in the bigger game. And at the same time, having a wealthy mindset to see opportunities. It’s funny, speaking of that. Right now I’m in the buying mode because everyone else is panicking. And I’m buying a bunch of stocks. So my son right, we talked about his financial conference last time. He’s like, “Mom, the Disney stocks are down 50%.” “Great, let’s just go by like 20 right now.” While people Panic, that’s when people who are very grounded in their wealth consciousness start to like look for great deals. Yeah.

Christine Schlonski [21:09]
Wow, that’s so powerful and it’s so true. I don’t know who said that but it’s like this thing that I don’t really like but it really reflects what you just said. Like when there’s blood in the streets, that’s the best time to invest. Like everybody is panic, everybody thinks the worse, like the positivity, go away. And then you get stuff for, like, cheaper than the true values.

Dr. Shannon Tran [21:37]
It’s all about mindset. I’m not being negligent like yeah, I’m gonna stock up on what I need to. Not in a panic way, because I’m not a fear-based living person, but I’ll be responsible cuz I need to feed my kids and make sure they have what they need. And my mindset is going on, “Geez, since I’m not busy panicking, I might as well just look at this opportunity. Wow, I can go home. I can buy stuff.” That’s what it’s all about where do you want to put your focus and your energy? That’s true of any situation right now. It’s because of what’s going on right now in the world with a virus. But in any situation, it’s always about where you’re going to put your focus. I can put it towards panic, or I can put it towards, “I’m a solution, not the problem.”

Christine Schlonski [22:19]
Yeah, I love that point of view. And what I also love is that the wonderful gift you brought at the success rituals, share with us again what’s in there. I know you shared it in the last episode as well. But I just want to make sure people have the opportunity to understand the amazing value they’re getting to really set them up for success for a strong mindset, especially when times are a bit uncertain. There’s a lot of probable politics around that as well that we don’t even, that we are not able to see through as you know, regular people. So, the success rituals, what do we get when we come and sign up?

Dr. Shannon Tran [23:00]
Yeah, so think of it as your success kit, right? So like, you know, anytime you relate, your mindset is off, I would come here. So there, it’s helping with your money mindset. It’s giving you a daily ritual that you can practice to get you grounded in the mindset of abundance and seeing clearly, there’s a visualization, visualization exercise to help you visualize the outcome you want. So your mind is working for you, not against you. And so some great grounding exercises in there. So it’s really like a success kit if you will.

Christine Schlonski [23:32]
I love it. Well, thank you so much. I’m so super excited about that opportunity for the audience. And thank you so much for again, another wonderful episode. I just love talking to you. We probably could go on and on, you know, time is up. We got to put a stop right here. But I want to make sure that if you listen to this episode, I hope you took notes and I hope you have some action points so that you can get a stronger mindset and shift your money mindset to a place where you can be this awesome receiver and this awesome giver with balance and harmony. So you can invite not just money, but all the great things you want into your life. Thank you so, so much. And that was fun. And yeah, thank you.

Dr. Shannon Tran [24:23]
Thank you, Christine.

Christine Schlonski [24:24]
Well, what a great episode. I’m so happy I had the opportunity to talk to Shannon again. And I just, I just love the way to see how we can have balance harmony, how we can really, really set our boundaries and make things happen that are important to us. Hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/. Find the podcast tap and get your show notes, your transcripts, all the links to Shannon, they’re just one click away. And yeah, get your resources as well. And once you’re over there sign up for the empowerment notes. I’m so super excited to have you in that tribe of heart sellers that are really going for their dreams by delivering amazing value to their audiences to their tribes. And I would love for you to be part of that. Empowerment notes are basically all the updates on heart cells podcast, as well as amazing content where I share some advice, some tips, resources as well, and just parts of my journey. And usually, I always have something for my tribe that you do not get anywhere else, but with the empowerment notes. So hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/ sign up and thank you so much for tuning in. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are in this beautiful world. And I’m saying bye for now.

 

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