Podcast

217 Positive Manipulation with Ian Garlic

Ian is one of the country’s “go-to” experts in Video Marketing and Storytelling. He is a best-selling author of 3 marketing books.

Ian’s recorded over 250 episodes of “The Garlic Marketing Show” (with guests like Neil Patel and Garey Vaynerchuk), created over 10 marketing courses, and produced more than 2,000 videos for his clients.

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Episode’s Resources

Books: Stake Your Claim: The Four Ways Your Business Must Win in the Wild West of the Web by Ian Garlic

The Garlic Marketing Show – Stories and Strategies that Don’t Stink by Ian Garlic

Podcast: Garlic Marketing Show Podcast

Free Gift: 30 days free access to the Storyboard Video Blueprint Workshop

3 Key Points:

  • Video is one of the things we cannot resist. The mere exposure effect, if we see someone’s face, and if we hear someone’s voice over and over again, we earned green to think they are our friend. And that’s why video is so important. Video’s a form of manipulation.
  • Yes, you want to guide towards a sale, but you need to go into it with an open mind, open heart, and really listening to people. If you do that, you will be an incredible salesperson, even if you don’t sell them.
  • Don’t ask for the sale right away. But they always, always, always ask for a sale at some point, and aren’t afraid to do it after they provide value.

Show Notes:

[04:19] If they believe in it, this certain person will take action and help people. I was talking about with the blueprint that we talked about before. I know that people will, if they do everything in it, will transform their businesses. I will do whatever it takes within the realm of ethics.

[05:28] Video is one of the things we cannot resist. The mere exposure effect, if we see someone’s face, and if we hear someone’s voice over and over again, we earned green to think they are our friend. And that’s why video is so important. Video’s a form of manipulation.

[09:40] Number one is focus. The best ones get super focused and sell one thing over and over and over and over and over again.

[10:14] The more focused you are in your audience and who you sell to, the better you’ll get.

[11:21] Don’t ask for the sale right away. But they always, always, always ask for a sale at some point, and aren’t afraid to do it after they provide value.

[11:46] The only time I’d say you’re pushing the sale too hard is if you’re asking for money for people that genuinely don’t have it. But most people you’re talking to have the money.

[12:37] Becoming an entrepreneur is the best self-development journey that you can be on.

[19:18] Yes, you want to guide towards a sale, but you need to go into it with an open mind, open heart, and really listening to people. If you do that, you will be an incredible salesperson, even if you don’t sell them.

[21:27] One tactic that I think everyone needs to learn is probably one of the hardest ones, is you ask for the sale and then shut up.

Transcript:

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Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey, Gorgeous. This is episode number 217 with the amazing Ian Garlic back on the show today.

Ian Garlic [0:09]
Hi, this is Ian Garlic. You are listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:16]
I can’t wait to dive into this episode because I really want to know what’s positive manipulation. When I hear manipulation, I shrink. It feels tight. It feels like, “No, I don’t want to go there”, but I know that Ian has only best intentions. Let’s find out what he is talking about and how we need to understand what positive manipulation is. What it has to do with a video. What it has to do with your business because Ian really knows what he’s talking about. He’s the go-to expert in video marketing and storytelling. He has written three best-selling books in marketing. He has recorded over 250 episodes of his epic “The Garlic Marketing Show” and has created over 10 marketing courses and produced more than 2000 videos for his clients. So let’s tune in and pick his brain. Make sure you have a pen and paper so you can take notes and most of all, do something with those notes. Take action, and have fun with today’s episode. Well, I’m super excited to have you back on the show, Ian. Welcome.

Ian Garlic [1:28]
Thank you, glad to be back.

Christine Schlonski [1:30]
Yeah, I loved our conversation because you’ve been an entrepreneur like basically, from the get-go. You came as an entrepreneur into this world, growing up in an entrepreneurial household. Selling is kind of ingrained, and it seems like you’re doing it naturally. And in the last episode, we talked about positive manipulation. And I think that’s a really interesting concept that people probably need to think about and understand, because when we hear the word manipulation, it feels like, “Oh, I don’t want to go there. That’s bad. That’s unethical.” But we were talking about positive manipulation, where you help people to make a decision for something that they really, truly need. And they need, maybe your help. I mean, at the end of the day, they decide themselves, but they need your help to go through that process and to understand what you as an entrepreneur company can do for them. Can we talk a little bit about why it’s so important to use it and how you differentiate what’s good manipulation and what’s bad manipulation?

Ian Garlic [2:44]
Sure. How you use it? Well, I mean, one of the biggest things to understand is, a human brain is an emotional machine. And by that, I mean there’s a lot of emotional responses. We have happen that we don’t understand are happening that got us to where we are as a species. There’s a lot of neuroscience behind this. There’s a lot of research. I have Paul Zakon who talks about how storytelling manipulates. Storytelling actually is one of my favorite things. Paul Zakon did blood studies while people were watching videos. If you have a positive dramatic arc, meaning that you tell the story the right way versus something that’s a flat narrative. Something like an 80% increase in cortisol and oxytocin, which the cortisol and oxytocin when they come together. Cortisol is the fear. Oxytocin is the pleasure. When you have both of them you have an increase in empathy. The increase in empathy directly related to someone making a positive decision about anything. If I make you feel more empathetic right now, Christine, I can then ask you to donate and you are going to be more likely to donate. You have that story, nothing to do with it, that is manipulation. I mean, I am manipulating your chemicals. If you’re doing that to get donations for a worthy cause, if you’re doing that, because you’re selling a course that you know will help these people. If they believe in it, this certain person will take action and help people. I was talking about with the blueprint that we talked about before. I know that people will, if they do everything in it, will transform their businesses. I will do whatever it takes within the realm of ethics. I’m not going to lie to you and say you’re going to make a million dollars next week. That would be unethical manipulation. I’m not going to give you, I’m not gonna say I’m making a mess, and one things I see a lot especially in the e-commerce world. People selling e-commerce and saying, “Oh, I’ll show you how to make a million dollars this year.” Well, I know I feel like made a million dollars at work, had a million dollars in revenue and had $1.5 million in expenses, that’s unethical manipulation. If you’re saying, “I’m gonna make a million dollars”, not saying, guess what, you’re not taking any of that home. I think there’s those two. But when it comes to the science of video, the science of marketing, there’s Robert Cialdini of Influence. He has all his weapons of influence. Those are things that we cannot resist. Video is one of the things we cannot resist. The mere exposure effect, if we see someone’s face, and if we hear someone’s voice over and over again, we earned green to think they are our friend. And that’s why video is so important. Video’s a form of manipulation. If you get in from there and you provide value and get them to watch your videos over and over again. They are going to buy from you more often, faster and spend more with you. But if you’re doing the right thing and servicing them, that is not worth it. If you’re really changing their lives. If you’re making their life, even if the, here’s the thing, a lot of people, I have clients that are like, “Well, this isn’t working.” I’m like, “Oh, yeah, let’s take a look at that. Well, it seems to me like you spent $100,000 and you made $300,000.” Like, “Yeah, but I wanted a 10 to 1 return”, you’ve got to put that stuff out of your head, you’re gonna hear that. You’re gonna say, “Oh, this isn’t working.” But if you know, if people do it the right way, they’re getting at least a two to one result or five years from what you’re giving them, manipulate away.

Christine Schlonski [6:35]
Yeah, I mean, everybody, if you ask that question, if you would pay $10 and you would, I would give you 100 would you do it? Like everybody would do it. I mean, that’s like, the total no brainer. So the question is like, what, how do you serve people that if they give you $10 with whatever you do, they get at least $11, $12, $15, $20 $100 back, whatever it is. It will enrich their lives, it gives them more opportunity, it gives them more impact and reached. I see that with my clients. They’re so heart-centered, they have amazing gifts that need to go out into the world. But when they can’t sell, then they keep it for themselves. That’s pretty selfish. Get out of your own way and offer what you have to offer to the world in a way that enriches them. But also that helps you to have a business instead of a hobby. And then to grow your business and to really have that impact. Because the more money your business has, the more impact and choices you have. I think it does go altogether. It’s like it’s a holistic thing. You cannot just have it in little compartments.

Ian Garlic [7:56]
Nope, nope. One of these gurus that you see, I know a lot of them. They’re all amazing salespeople. There’s not one of them out there that is, was just great, so good that they brought everyone in from them. I mean, they are all great salespeople, and they sold stuff and they sell it more and then they get used to selling it higher and higher and higher. There’s plenty of people I know out there that are better, skilled coaches, that are skilled consultants. I mean, I’ve worked with the top coaches in the world. I’ve met people that aren’t paid anywhere near as much. They’re just as good if not better. But you have to, have to, have to sell, you have to. I get very frustrated when anyone says thank the business and not a salesperson. Until there’s a sale there’s no business.

Christine Schlonski [8:45]
Yeah, totally. Thank you for pointing that out. Obviously, I 100% agree, no sale, no business, you have a hobby. A hobby is usually not as impactful as a business because you just do it for yourself. You make yourself happy. That’s what a hobby is. But you don’t have that impact. Not the 10 people, not the hundreds, or maybe thousands or there are people out there that influence hundred-thousands, millions of people in a very positive way. When you look at that, and all the, let’s say, coaches and consultants you know, and you know some are really great salespeople, and they make that difference. What are their secrets? What do they do or what do you see them doing that the others are not? Are they better storytellers? Do they use more video? Do they have some better sales pages? What is it?

Ian Garlic [9:40]
I mean, number one is focus. The best ones get super focused and sell one thing over and over and over and over and over again. I would say that’s a big one, getting better at it. Getting focused at your audience. You want to serve everyone, you’re like, “This is for everyone.” The guys that are really good get super focused on their audience first. I think back to Tony Robbins and you know, he was super focused in his audience when he first started out. The more focused you are in your audience and who you sell to, the better, you’ll get. Then understanding they have a really, really strong understanding of the person’s situation. You know, when I, when I developed the storyboard blueprints, it was I was, I was really good at marketing, but I didn’t understand exactly the mechanisms behind that. And I look back I was I was a math major in college. At my beginning, I graduated degree in economics, but, you know, understanding why the math worked was crucial to becoming really good. So I’m like, Well, I understand how the marketing works. And I start really listening to the best salespeople and when they tell stories, when they told stories, the stories were very simple. You know, they would tell the story about that moment in time. That person that sat down next to me this person that did this this person that sent me the letter, and you know, telling about their kids and what was happening at that moment when they went home What happened? So yes, they are great storytellers too. Those are the big ones. And then, like you said, asking for the sale. You know, it don’t ask for the sale right away. But they always, always, always ask for a sale at some point, and aren’t afraid to do it after they provide value.

Christine Schlonski [11:30]
Yeah, they’re not they’re not shying away or forget about it even.

Ian Garlic [11:34]
No, no, not shying away at all. And I’ve seen some people take it over the top where I feel like they push the sale too hard. But anyone that’s listening to this, you’re not gonna push the sale too hard. If you don’t want only time, I’d say you’re pushing the sale too hard as if you’re asking for money for people that genuinely don’t have it. But most people you’re talking to have the money, even if they say they don’t have the money that they do. Now, if someone’s broke, and you’re like Here’s the thing I said make a million dollars and you’re telling them to go, you know, leverage all their credit cards to get your course. I don’t like that. But for the most part, if you’re talking to someone, if you’re talking to a business owner or someone that has money and you’re asking for 1000 2000 3000 $10,000 that you know will make them $100,000 or next five years, ask for it. Get it, you deserve it, and you can help more people.

Christine Schlonski [12:23]
Yeah, totally. So how do you deal with the setbacks in your business? I mean business the business journey is interesting and I don’t know who said it, I don’t know who to give credit to to this one. But becoming an entrepreneur is the best self development journey that you can be on. So how do you deal with setbacks in the business?

Ian Garlic [12:48]
Well, after I scream and punch something No, I

Christine Schlonski [12:52]
you know, that could be a start let it out. No, I’m

Ian Garlic [12:55]
always it’s it’s funny. It’s it’s almost cliched, and then I say it too much here. In our my business. It’s like there’s no problems. There’s just solutions. And, and we need to be like, Look, what’s the solution to this? Where did we go wrong? What could we have done better? What can we learn from this? And what’s the solution? Because everything every set, quote unquote, setback is just, it’s pointing you in different direction is going, Hey, I shouldn’t go that way. Or I did something wrong. Let me fix that. You know, and I’ve been through massive setbacks. I’ve been through little setbacks, the faster you can go, you know what this is, something went wrong. Let’s figure out and make it better, the faster you’ll grow. And that’s what, you know, I always think of when when I really get back, think about it, you know, think about the act. We might have talked about this before. But you know, the trip to the moon, NASA’s trip to the moon, you know, billions of billions and billions of dollars spent the smartest people like the smartest people in the world working on this, and how many setbacks I have people dying explosions. You know, failed lift offs. And then when they get out into space, they’re off course 98% of the time. Think about that 98% of the time, and how these are all very precise factors, right? It’s physics. It’s not human. You’re not dealing with human environments, you’re not dealing with super complex chaotic systems like we do in business. So know that even with the best laid plans, you’ve got to alter every time and that’s what I you know, I think back then, like, Listen, I’m just learning and I’m gonna make this better. And this is what’s gonna make me better than everyone else’s going past this and not getting not hideous.

Christine Schlonski [14:41]
Yeah, I love that. Like it’s a it’s a constant journey of learning and developing and growing. And obviously, what if you don’t grow basically, you die or you you know, become the zombie. Because if you don’t leave that comfort soon, no matter how cozy it is in there, you will not live your full potential. So you guys Do something and you gotta learn and allow your approach of, you know, asking what’s, what’s the solution? What could I do better next time? or How can I fix the situation? And depending what it was, like help the customer in a different way or do something extra, like, really help to get the solution right away?

Ian Garlic [15:22]
Yep, on percent.

Christine Schlonski [15:24]
So is there like a book? Or can you name a book that changed or influenced your life in a big way? And I know you read a ton of books. So I know this is a difficult question. But what comes to mind right now when you hear that question, what book would you pick?

Ian Garlic [15:41]
You know, oh, man, that’s a tough one. And I mean, there’s certain books I read all the time. So War of Art by Steven pressfield. is amazing. I love the audiobook version of it, too. You know, just about getting stuff done. belling the resistance You know, thinking Grow Rich Napoleon Hill is a classic. And then I love biographies. I love stories of business. You know, Jim Henson’s biography is amazing. And then recently I you know, I got to interview Pat Williams who co founded the or founded the Orlando Magic basketball team here. And he’s, if you look at his life, it’s absolutely amazing. I mean, the guys I can’t the podcast is made but he’s ran 56 marathons written 100 books. He invented like three of the mascots, Covina two teams, I mean, just like this litany of things and he’s the most humble guy, but his latest book character carved in stone I was listening to it right before all this stuff happened and I was thinking about it because we we think things are tough, but then you look back at World War One World War Two, these guys that were thrown into the midst of the scariest things is is story about Schwarzkopf, you know, picking up his soldiers after him being blown apart, essentially. And, you know, it’s like, oh, I can do this. You don’t get enough stories now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, getting those stories now. And finding those stories, those are super important to me. And then I mean, I read the DAO de Chang every day, too. So that’s probably important one to Me, too. So it’s influenced me. I’ve been reading that since I was 12.

Christine Schlonski [17:30]
Wow. So let’s, let’s stick in that a little bit. Why do you keep going back? Like, I mean, obviously, you’re getting something out of it each time you read it, or you hope you get something new. And, you know, it’s not just 12 pages. It’s a bit more. Yeah. So what, why is this book so important?

Ian Garlic [17:52]
It’s I mean, if you really read it, every personal development, every self help book comes out of it. It’s every idea that really works from stoicism, to I mean, even the Bible, there’s a lot of those philosophies lie within every philosophy that we have. So, and there’s a lot of paradoxes in it. And there’s a lot of ways of thinking and, and centering yourself. And every time I read it, I get something else out of it. And it’s, it’s amazing that that just applies to that day. And I pick a verse and read it and think about it. So it’s, it’s and I’ve studied a lot of different books around it, but just an idea of, you know, action without action. Being without being it’s like how to take action without having been invested in it is absolutely crucial. So you do your work, and then you step away from it. And I think that that, you know, when it comes to like making video or selling, it’s like, I am not my work. I am not this is what I do. And whatever happens happens. I that to me, As an absolute crucial philosophy and and the idea of emptiness and and really that everything’s utility isn’t its emptiness is a big philosophy that I try to remember too, and being open. And that’s what I mean when it comes to sales. You know, if you go into this, yes, you want to guide towards a sale, but you need to go into it with an open mind, open heart, and really listening to people. And if you do that, you will be an incredible salesperson, even if you don’t sell them. You know, I always like I was saying before, I always want to leave someone if I can’t help you, I’m gonna send you someplace that I do. And if you’re open, you’re gonna be, you’re gonna have that and that book just reminds me of it every time I read it.

Christine Schlonski [19:47]
Yeah, I love that. That that’s my philosophy to like, if you’re not my soulmate client, and I feel in the conversation that I do not want to work with you. I can’t serve you at my best. I sent you somewhere else. Someone else might be the perfect fit for you if I’m not. And I think it’s also like the the mindset shift in the entrepreneur, I’m sending business to someone else, right? But I think like this attitude of giving, that changes everything there because there’s enough for everybody. And if you give and you’re not afraid of giving, because you’re sending business away, God forbid, then you know you open up to abundance. Because you know, the next the next client is a perfect fit probably or maybe someone send someone your way. And that you know, that being open and giving and serving, and just, you know, wanting to make the world a better place and wanting to make sure that where whoever you are in contact with, they are better off after that conversation. No matter what the results if they work with you, or if they don’t work with you or whatever it is.

Ian Garlic [20:58]
I agree completely. I mean, if you have That attitude, you’re gonna sell really well, if you as long as you ask for the sale, well, you’re going to do well.

Christine Schlonski [21:07]
A good reminder asked for the sale. And you can do that in a very nice way that’s not pushy, slimy or sleazy. It’s

Ian Garlic [21:15]
just like, Hey, is this gonna work for you? And then keep your mouth shut? You know, I want to get once I don’t like, quote unquote, sales tactics a lot of the time, but one tactic that I think everyone needs to learn is probably one of the hardest ones is you ask for the sale and then shut up.

Unknown Speaker [21:34]
Yes.

Ian Garlic [21:36]
And that’s really I learned that early on, and still hard for me to do. And it’s like, it’s amazing because like 15 seconds can seem like 15 years when everyone’s quiet, but I promise you people if you’re listening to this, and you implement that after yesterday’s till you get quiet, the person that speaks first is gonna lose.

Christine Schlonski [21:57]
I love that. You just said that. I learned that a long time. time ago, and it was such a tough learning to not speak to not fill that room to leave that room open and empty and up to the other person to say something. And it’s so true. I’ve made so many deals because in that moment where you are quiet the other person has a space to think about the yes and the no and you should not interfere with their thoughts. Yep,

Ian Garlic [22:27]
yes.

Christine Schlonski [22:28]
So what what a wonderful advice to finish this off. I just I love it. It’s so important. It’s something that I emphasize with my clients all the time. You make your offer, and you shot a shot.

Unknown Speaker [22:43]
It’s hard.

Christine Schlonski [22:44]
practices are hard, especially for women. It’s super hard. It’s super, super high. And yeah, I remember like when I was doing corporate, I had a really enthusiastic person on my team and I was listening to him. conversation he made the offer was a high ticket offer. And then in the same sentence, it was like, Well, do you want to do it? And if not, that’s fine too. You know, I was always almost falling off my chair here, you know, like having such a great conversation. And obviously the other person was interested, otherwise it wouldn’t have lasted that long on the phone. And then it’s kind of you know, and then when he was quiet, not a long time, but I was just also mind blowing to see that and to understand, like, what you need to teach people that they are quiet that they can stand, and there’s all of their energy behind the offer they just made. Yep. Yeah, awesome. so that people can get a really, really cool idea of how to do the videos. you’re providing them with a storyboard video blueprint and I’m so grateful because it’s a real course you usually when you do that with people, you try $2,500 so this is like real value, not some made up value. Really get something. And I’m, I’m lucky, like the moment we speak, I’m still going through that with your guidance. And I have to say it’s amazing. And you guys, when you get that the storyboard video blueprint at story, cruise comm forward slash hotels, and it’s also in the resource section in the show notes. You have 30 days, because you need to take action. So you go in there, it’s a five day course you have quite some homework. But once you figure that out, once you’ve got the system, you can shoot like all of your videos, you know what to do, and it’s going to know exactly how to format them.

Ian Garlic [24:49]
Yeah, I mean, I’ve used this to we’ve literally shot 120 videos and day and a half for a client. He was burned out

Christine Schlonski [25:00]
We had a good advertisement for you.

Ian Garlic [25:02]
No, no, you shouldn’t. I’m saying you shouldn’t expect 220 videos. Yeah, but I’m saying we had planned them out. It made 120 awesome videos, wow and a half because we plan that? Well, he was he was a super high energy like high level client. So but that’s the level that you can do with this. You can get it out, you easily shoot a video a day, and you have the system you’ll know what to do when you go through a system and they work.

Christine Schlonski [25:31]
Yeah, even if you shoot a video a day, and you do it like five or seven days in a row, you’ve got a lot of content.

Ian Garlic [25:39]
You will you’ll know exactly how to format it exactly what to say in it. Exactly what to do, how to shoot it, where to put it, what platforms to use, you’ll have that entire plan.

Christine Schlonski [25:49]
Wow. Awesome. Well, thank you so so much. I really appreciate you being on the show, sharing those golden nuggets and I hope that people take tons of action and they are pleased Like, you know, hop on social media check, definitely check out the Gallic Marketing Show. It’s amazing. And you know, leave some comments, like, let them know how you’re doing this storyboard video blueprint, right? And don’t forget to cc me or send me your feedback as well. Because I want to know as well, like, what are you getting out of it? And how does it change your business? Because like more than ever, video is like the thing right now that it’s going to make a huge difference to whatever you do to your message helping you to get your message to the right people. So thank you so much for your time. And yeah, have a wonderful day.

Ian Garlic [26:38]
Thank you, you too.

Christine Schlonski [26:40]
Well, that was quite an episode. Now I know what positive manipulation is, and I also understood why it’s important. And so I wonder how do you feel about this. If you feel like reaching out I would love to hear from you. You can always write an email to info at Christine schlonski.com. And you can also hop over to Christine shlonsky.com. Find the podcast tab find Episode 217. With the show notes, the key points, the transcript and the resources to iron is amazing gift the 30 day free access to the storyboard video blueprint workshop. And all the links that connect you to iron are just one click away. Thank you so much for having been here. I hope you are doing well. Your loved ones are well your family as well. Stay safe and sane. And I’m looking forward for you to tune into the next episode. Thank you so much. lots of sunshine from Germany and I’m saying bye for now.

 

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