Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi Gorgeous. This is episode number 195. Our wonderful heart-centered guest today is Cindy Schulson.

Cindy Schulson [0:10]
Hi there, Cindy Schulson. You’re listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:16]
I have been waiting quite a long time to get Cindy Schulson on the show and here she is. I’m super excited because our messages are so aligned, it’s all about the heart. Cindy Schulson shows coaches and consultants how to stand out in this noisy online world by marketing with heart vs. hype. She brings a decade of marketing experience working for companies such as Coca Cola and Visa, combined with a decade of online marketing to create a paradigm shift in how marketing can be done with integrity and heart. So let’s welcome, Cindy. Well, I am so excited to have you on the show today Cindy, welcome.

Cindy Schulson [1:02]
Thank you. I am excited to be here.

Christine Schlonski [1:05]
We resonated so much because both of our messages, your’s is marketing and mine is selling but it’s from the heart. It’s so important that it’s not the hype, but it has substance, it really supports people. Let us in like, how did you figure out that this was kind of your calling? How did it come that you said, well, it’s marketing from the heart?

Cindy Schulson [1:35]
Like everything else in business, it’s an evolution. I rebrand, I came on, I started my business in 2010, rebranded as marketing from within in 2015. Marketing from everything was all about like really starting from within you, building a business that leverages. Everything you bring to the table, but then I realized this, I was actually creating a webinar. I was talking about, I want you to feel good about marketing. I want marketing that honors you and the people that you’re here to serve. That’s when it just kind of clicked marketing with heart. Then it just, the more hype I see online, the next part just fit together so perfectly, because there is a lot of hype out there. So for me, it’s all about marketing that really honors you, above all. Your value, your vision and your voice, but also honors the people that you’re here to serve. Because I think so much of the marketing we see out there is not only inauthentic but it’s really like almost like an insult. It just turns me off so much and I know it turns other people off. In fact, it turns people off of marketing. So my whole goal was for people to actually like marketing if they could do it from a different place.

Christine Schlonski [3:03]
Yeah, I just love that because there’s so many get rich, quick things out there that give you the idea while you don’t need to do the work and it’s just like these three steps and then you’re going to be a billionaire. I just love that, that you are making sure that the person, the business owner, the entrepreneur, honest himself is true to their word, is true to their values and by being true to your values, you can actually create something that’s lasting, that is really providing value for others because that’s how people will connect with us.

Cindy Schulson [3:47]
So true, and there are so many layers to it, and the more that I sort of roll with this idea, and every time I speak to somebody like you I get another layer, another perspective. I think you talked about like leveraging, like honoring your value, which I think is so important from a sales mindset. One of the things I’m most passionate about too is honoring your voice. I think a lot of marketing we’re told, “Will figure out what people want to hear.” Then just say to them, and the way I looked at it, Christine is like, I spent years in corporate, in strategic communications and marketing. I’m like, “Okay, I spend enough years telling people what they want to hear. This is my business.” One of the best things about having your own business is you get to say what you believe, what you truly believe. I love showing people how to put their true voice in their marketing. Yes, it has to connect with your ideal client, but it should also be true to what you want to say.

Christine Schlonski [4:56]
Yeah, totally agree and we still can learn from our idea clients. Sometimes they use a word and I remember one of my amazing clients, Michelle, she said, “Well, it’s the fear of stammering on your words.” I never ever would have thought that. But it so makes sense that now I use it as well. Like, if you feel like you would stammer on your words, and other people can relate. But I did not just take it because I thought, “Well, all my ideal clients are going to relate.” Well, some will, some won’t. But they kind of teach you interesting words that you wouldn’t come up with. But it’s still, I still think it needs to be, it needs to feel true to you.

Cindy Schulson [5:48]
Yes. It’s really interesting because when we’re talking about like the messaging, it’s what you say and how you say it. Definitely, of course, your marketing has to connect and I actually teach people how to make sure it connects with the hearts and the minds of your ideal clients. What I’m trying to inspire people to do is also recognize that in order to connect with the hearts and minds of your ideal clients, you have to put your heart and your mind in your message. That’s what creates that emotional connection. But it’s also what allows you to attract those ideal clients, we talked about ideal clients a lot in marketing. And yes, part of it is, what do they do? Where are they at in whatever challenge they have? But another part of it is being aligned emotionally, with what you stand for. That’s what I teach people to do is put that piece in their marketing so that when somebody, whenever I ask a question, “What makes you want to work with me?” They always say, “Because you teach it from the heart.” If I put that in my messaging, I’m going to attract people who resonate with that, as opposed to people who just want to double their income in 60 days.

Christine Schlonski [7:09]
Yeah, yeah, totally agree. I even take it a step further, I always talk about my soul mate clients.

Cindy Schulson [7:16]
Oh, I love that.

Christine Schlonski [7:17]
Especially, if it’s one on one or small group, where you really have a lot of interaction. It’s so funny. Not too long ago, we were in a group setting. I took an example of Argentine tango and I described the sales process through the dance and coming to find out everybody on the call love to dance and most of them like some kind of Latin. So no wonder because you’re all my soulmate clients, obviously, I didn’t think about it. You all love to dance.

Cindy Schulson [7:52]
I love the soulmate clients. That’s beautiful. I love that.

Christine Schlonski [7:55]
It’s so much fun when you think of your business like this where you have a big smile on your face when you see the person’s book in your calendar or the next group call is coming up, I think it gives us, it so much juice our selves, like doing what we want to do and how we want to do it and we can show up in a way that how we are. I mean, we’re always growing and evolving but showing up authentically and sharing pain and pleasure and joy with other people I think is so important because that makes that connection.

Cindy Schulson [8:37]
It does. And you know, it’s so fun. It’s like I’ve been doing this for 10 years now. And I have to say, I’ve had many cool experiences in my life. There’s no doubt, but as a nut to a personal growth experience. I think this has been having your own businesses, one of the best ways to just sort of grow. You talked about evolving. Your message will evolve as your business evolves as you evolve. And it’s such a cool opportunity to kind of, I’m a private, introverted person, like, that’s who I am. But as, because I have a marketing because I have to walk my talk and I teach marketing. I’ve had to peel back the layers of the onion to really reveal more and more of who I am in my marketing, and it was scary at first, I totally get that. But the more that you can sort of show up as who you really are, the more, not only do you attract the perfect clients, but I think the more you grow as a person. You get over those fears of showing up what’s so cool is like you’ve been doing this well too. 10 years ago we didn’t have a zoom, we didn’t have Facebook Live. Now there are so many easy ways to show up as who you really are. The technology just allows you to do that in such a cool way. So, if people are, if anybody’s listening who’s kind of introverted and kind of afraid of being more vulnerable out there, I want to just share one thought, some people can just rip off the band-aid and like, “Here I am!” And for other people, they need to do what I did, which is peel back the layers of the onion one at a time, whichever method works for you. It’s okay. But just, I want to inspire people to just peel back those layers or rip off the band-aid and just show up as who you really are in your business. I promise you, not only will you track our clients, but you’ll grow as a person in really cool ways too. So anyway, that was my little sidetrack there, Chris

Christine Schlonski [10:43]
Yeah, I just love it and it’s so true. Thank you for starting that conversation on introvert and extrovert. I just love it. And it’s so important for the sales process as well. Introverts do have a different way of going about sales than extroverts. There’s nothing wrong with it. Once I understood that, that kind of, well, I don’t even know if I can say system but once I understood the energy needed for an introvert to be more extrovert and vice versa, and that you know, nothing is wrong with you. You’re not broken if your total extrovert. You’re not broken if you’re a total introvert. It’s just the way how you approach things. If you understand as a salesperson who you’re talking to, you can adjust and you can help the person you’re having the conversation with to make it easy and fun. For an introvert, you just have to ask tons of questions. They give you these amazing answers. These are smart people, but they think first before they speak, so ask them really really cool stuff and you will be amazed at what comes out.

Cindy Schulson [12:01]
I love that. That’s a cool way of thinking about it. I think it’s the same for marketing too. Because what, we do business with people. So yes, you want to know that somebody can help you. You want to know that somebody cares about helping you. But you also want to know who they really are. And a lot of times what’s going to end up like, really convincing you that, “Oh, she’s the one to help me”, is not only how well you can explain things and teach people and show you care, but your energy. There’s just something that’s going to be aligned. Like you and I get along really well. There’s just an energetic alignment, and that’s the same for your clients. So that’s another reason to show up as who you really are. Because you want that like fun in your business. And the way to do that is by working with people that you feel really connected and aligned with.

Christine Schlonski [12:53]
Yeah. So agree and so more. Well, are much harder and more difficult if you try to show up as someone you are not.

Cindy Schulson [13:06]
I think that’s what, I think that’s another part of marketing that almost verges on the hype kind of thing. Okay, so there are certain people that have big personalities, and we’ve seen this online and they’re amazing at what they do. I look at them and I go, “That’s just not who I am. I can’t put on that persona. It’s just not me.” I want people to understand too, that even if you don’t have that big personality, you can be really successful. Because other people are going to resonate more with, I call it quiet confidence. I’m very confident in what I do, but I don’t have to show to get my message heard and I if somebody listening who is more introverted and doesn’t have that big personality, please know you can get your message heard. You can attract your ideal clients when you really put your heart and mind in your message and you add real value for people and create meaningful connections.

Christine Schlonski [14:08]
Yeah, I totally agree. I mean the moment, and I think it goes kind of hand in hand with the fact that when you figure out that you do not need to worry about what other people think about you.

Cindy Schulson [14:23]
That’s a tough one to get over with, isn’t it?

Christine Schlonski [14:26]
I would say I’m like most of the time I’m over it but sometimes you kind of get caught.

Cindy Schulson [14:34]
Totally.

Christine Schlonski [14:35]
But it feels so much lighter and better. Just being who you are, like that authentic piece and showing up. You have good days you have bad days. Well, if you have a super bad day, or maybe you take a day off to get clear with what you want to display, but also talking about like, what’s working, what’s not working, I think is so super important. Because when I started in my business, sometimes I felt like I was the only one having this challenge. And it’s so not true. There are thousands of entrepreneurs going through the same challenge, but only when we talk about it, we understand because then people can respond.

Cindy Schulson [15:26]
And you know, I’m going, to be honest with you. I am so like, there are these layers of connection. So you’ve got your private clients, you’ve got your small group coaching clients, I’ve got my membership group clients, and then I have like my Facebook group, so I kind of look at it like these, like circles like that, go out and then there’s the big social media universe. I am so transparent at the core. And as it expands into the outer circles, I get scared in the social media circles, still to this day, not about being authentic, but just sharing more of that behind the scenes vulnerability. It’s something I’m still working on that like putting myself out there to the social media universe because I find it, I’ll be honest with you, I shouldn’t be saying this from a marketing perspective, but I’ll be honest with you that social media landscape is so vicious like I feel so safe being completely me with clients and with my group coaching clients and even in my private Facebook group with has like 3,000 people and it’s still small, but in that big social media space, I’m still intimidated by it with like, the viciousness that I see online. That’s something I’m working on getting over.

Christine Schlonski [16:47]
Yeah. Well, maybe not just trying not to focus on it. Because what you focus on expands. Just wishing people well and there are a saying and me kind of afraid a little bit that I repeat this on every single interview I’m doing. So if you’ve heard it before, sorry, but there’s a saying, “Hurt people hurt people. Happy people make people happy”, is what I’m saying. So when you focus on that happy part and how you can support somebody who might be hurting to be happy, then this can change. Because I’ve never seen a happy person that’s confident, that’s authentic, that’s really like in their core, true to themselves, going out making fun of other people or making other people smaller so they can feel bigger. I only see that was people who hurt somehow, and you know, have something they haven’t released yet or another situation that’s really painful. So I think it’s kind of expression to get rid of that pain, anger, maybe even rage or hate. And as soon as you are totally okay with who you are, you can go and radiate that out to the world, which then also will attract more of who you are, because then you are changing that frequency.

Cindy Schulson [18:28]
Yeah, I totally get it. It’s like the layers of the onion that I was talking about. Those circles, I’ve managed to get really transparent within my Facebook group, which again, has 3000 people, I don’t know them all. But I’ll take the leap one layer at a time I’m getting there.

Christine Schlonski [18:46]
It’s social media. That’s being authentic too. If you don’t feel like doing it, I mean, you know, over time, we all grow, we all evolve. So when the right time comes, the right time comes and you will know.

Cindy Schulson [19:02]
Yeah, I agree. And by the way, on your other comment before, I have to tell you this quote that I heard when I was all of 25 years old. I was living in, I grew up in Montreal, I was living there. And this French poet that I was working with said to me, she said, “Cindy 99% of the world’s problems are based on insecurity.” And every time I encounter like, conflict, or the kinds of, you know, pettiness that we sometimes see, or even conflict within my own family or whatever, I always think about that, and it’s so true. I know not to take it personally. And it’s not even about people will say, “Oh, I don’t like her or whatever.” It’s just about, I think it goes back to the introverted part, to the private part. So I’m expanding my circle. I’m expanding the layers of the onion, reach the social, the bigger social media platforms, and I feel ready but you know, it’s interesting, I never intended to go there and teach marketing. I never intended to go there in this conversation. So I’ll just say to you, you’re an amazing interviewer because you brought up something super, super vulnerable in me as I was sitting here talking about vulnerability. Thank you for letting me evolve and grow through this conversation.

Christine Schlonski [20:22]
Well, I hope everybody listening does. We all do if we set the intention that we want to grow. We all have our challenges and we all have our bad days and we have our sad days. Sometimes it’s just, that’s what it is. So you deal with it at the moment when it shows up but you don’t need to worry before.

Cindy Schulson [20:50]
If anybody wants to get to know the real Cindy, just join my Facebook group and you’ll get to know the real me.

Christine Schlonski [20:56]
See! It’s that easy. I that’s a pretty cool hook, I need to copy that one. This is so cool. So obviously you are on the introvert side. You need more energy to show up with more like the extrovert like to show up as a leader just as we add more energy as required for you. When did you or, well, maybe that’s, let me just see if that’s the right question. But when did you feel like you have these qualities, you know what you want, you want to follow your heart and you’re really now confident and set and unsure about the way you wanted to go, was it when you became an entrepreneur or did it started way before?

Cindy Schulson [21:50]
I’ve been, I really have always been confident in my ability to do what I want to do. That’s never been a problem for me my whole life. I’ve always just if I want to do something, I’m just going to get it done. That’s been my mindset my whole life. So and it was great. I’ve always been true to that. And of course, that mindset has been very helpful for me as an entrepreneur. And going back to the evolving and the growth thing, it doesn’t always work like that in reality. You might set out an intention and not need it as easily as you would like. I’ll tell you one thing, every time I set an intention in my business, I do reach it because I just keep going until I get there and I adapt, and I don’t judge myself and I just let myself learn and grow and evolve. And I think that mindset, I call it Build on Success has been really helpful for me, in my own business, because so many times we sort of look at where other people are at and we’ll say, “Oh, well if they could do it, I can do that too”, we set these false expectations for ourselves. So it can lead to disappointment. So rather than do that, I always say like, get it done, set your expectations, set your goals, and then build on the success you’ve created, add another layer to it, adds another dimension to it, improve it, leverage it, instead of like setting these big goals, comparing yourself to somebody who’s been doing this for 10 years, and feeling like you didn’t succeed. So it’s like this. I think that’s part of the growth that we have to go through as an entrepreneur. Have big goals but build on your successes as you move forward.

Christine Schlonski [23:45]
Yeah, yeah. kind of break them down to not overwhelm you.

Cindy Schulson [23:51]
For instance, like, if I’m launching a program, somebody might look at it and say, “Oh, wow, that’s really cool. I’m going to do a challenge that leads to a webinar, that leads to a coach on the….” They see all these layers, and they think I’ll have to do all that. But rather than worry about all those layers at a time, just start with something that feels you’re really confident and strong and then add another layer on to bad. The first time you launch a program, let it be a pilot. Do an amazing job, give people great value. We talked about this before. Once it’s working really well then do a bigger launch of it. And then maybe over time, it’ll turn into an evergreen program. But what happens is, people will look and they see, “Oh my gosh, look, she has an automated evergreen webinar funnel. And she can just keep enrolling people for $2,000 without even having to have a conversation with them. That’s what I want.” What they don’t realize is that there were all these incremental steps that she went through whoever she is, to reach that. Just start with where you’re at. Keep building on like a layer at a time, and you’ll reach that goal, instead of setting this unrealistic goal that doesn’t really allow you to evolve and improve things so your clients get a great experience.

Christine Schlonski [25:15]
Yeah, I love that. I would love to talk to you about like client experience in our next conversation. And I think what’s really important and really wonderful for this conversation. To finish this up, you did bring the brand message template, so people can really get clear on their message. Let us know where people can find you.

Cindy Schulson [25:42]
I’d love to and can I just explain what it is real quick first, is that okay?

Christine Schlonski [25:46]
Yes.

Cindy Schulson [25:46]
When we think about it, we talked about before about connecting with the hearts and minds of your ideal client. So what this brand message template teaches you is how to put your heart and your mind, in a message, in your message so that you can create that emotional connection with people, and that the right people will be attracted to you. So that it communicates not just what you do and who you help, but what you stand for in your business. So it shows you how to put all of those elements together in your message. I just love it. So they can go to https://marketingfromwithin.com/ and they’ll get the brand message template and there’s a bonus training video that shows you how to use your message to attract your ideal clients.

Christine Schlonski [26:35]
Wonderful. Well, thank you so so much. I’m looking forward to the next interview. And have an amazing day.

Cindy Schulson [26:41]
Thanks, Christine. You too!

Christine Schlonski [26:43]
I hope you took tons of notes. I just love how Cindy approaches marketing. Marketing, sales usually go hand in hand even though they’re kind of different. It is really supposed to be this one thing marketing sales communicating. If you are the person doing both, it’s really important that you come from the heart, because Heart Sells! and then also if you do marketing with heart vs hype, you can do that with integrity, being totally authentic and having fun on the journey and that is actually what Cindy teaches. So make sure you join the next episode where we talk about the clarity you need to figure out all these things. And in the meantime, you can hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/ Find the podcast tab, find Cindy’s Episode Number 192 and find the links to connect with her right away and her wonderful free gift, which is her free brand message template, so you can have a check on how to set you up for success. I’m super excited, I get the chance to speak to Cindy again. So join her for the next episode as well. And while you are over at https://christineschlonski.com/ find the podcast tab. You can also sign up for the empowerment notes where you get empowerment right into your inbox with all the updates about Heart Sells! Podcast and all the special things that are going on, as well as some really cool stuff that I usually do not share on social media, but that I just share with the people who have signed up for the empowerment notes. So once you’re over at https://christineschlonski.com/ just sign up for them and join us for the next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world. And I’m saying bye for now.