Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi, Gorgeous. This is episode number 169. We have the wonderful Michael Zipursky, the coach to consultants back with us today.

Michael Zipursky [0:10]
Hi, this is Michael Zipursky and you’re listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy it.

Christine Schlonski [0:16]
Well, I’m super excited to have Michael back today. And I just loved our last conversation about how to get your client attraction engine going. So today we’re going to talk more about how he actually succeeded in Japan, and what he did and why he actually choose it as a country to have a business in, what makes it so attractive. And also we’re going to talk about what you need to understand that people actually like to buy. So you have to make invitations for them to say yes to you, but you don’t need to sell them anything. And that is another factor where sales become so much easier if you just turn it around and you invite people to buy from you. So Michael Zipursky is the CEO of Consulting Success and a coach to consultants. He has advised organizations like the Financial Times, The Dow Jones, RBC, Omron, Sumitomo, and he has helped Panasonic to launch new products into the global market. But what is even more importantly, is that he has helped over 300 consultants from all around the world and over 50 industries to add six and seven figures to their annual revenues. His weekly newsletter is read by 34,000 consultants each and every week. And he’s also the author of the Amazon bestseller books, The Elite Consulting Mind and Coaching Success, the book, so I’m super pumped to have him back on the show today. Well, I’m so excited to have you back on the show, Michael, welcome.

Michael Zipursky [1:56]
Yeah, great to be back with you.

Christine Schlonski [1:58]
Yeah. So we finished off with one of your fan facts, which I really love because it’s not that usual, not too many people speak Japanesebesides, obviously, people from Japan. And I think it’s a fascinating culture. I had in my corporate world, I had the opportunity to go there for an event and to help out on site. And so I was in a very beautiful hotel in Tokyo and they had a restaurant for a Japanese restaurant and then the American restaurant so and I choose to have breakfast at the Japanese restaurant and you mentioned you felt like an outsider in school. When I entered that restaurant, I felt even more strange. The hotel was pretty international, but I was like the only tall, white, blonde woman and I even had the feeling that the waiter was kind of confused. I order a Japanese traditional breakfast and I had to figure out what all the stuff was on my plate or on the plates. Starting with fish and miso soup in the morning. It was really interesting to experience and I loved it. So I totally get how you can be excited about that culture because it’s so super special. And especially business-wise, that there’s a lot to learn. We talk about high pricing and how to get clients on a consistent basis and in the first episode, and I would love to just find out now like what was the very first thing that you ever sold in your life?

Michael Zipursky [3:43]
Wow. It’s a great question. The first thing I ever sold in my life. I’m sure it must have done some kind of fundraiser. I don’t think that counts when I was a kid.

Christine Schlonski [3:57]
Oh, totally, yeah, that’s counts if you remember it.

Michael Zipursky [4:01]
Yeah, I don’t, I mean I have a memory of like doing fundraisers for school or sports clubs, but I don’t remember what they were specifically.

Christine Schlonski [4:14]
You don’t remember how it felt, like asking for money, going with something to neighbors or strangers?

Michael Zipursky [4:23]
I was never against that. From a young age, sales itself hasn’t felt uncomfortable and I think I can maybe illustrate it through a little bit more of a recent example is still going back to my childhood. I sold, I worked at a used sporting goods store. We were selling like used footwear and snowboard boots and snowboards and jackets and bicycles and all that kind of stuff. I was very good at selling. So much so that I remember our pay, and I was a young kid at the time, our pay was directly connected to the level of revenue and that the owners actually had to take away that performance piece because they’re paying out so much to all of us. I don’t remember exactly how much it was. But I remember just feeling very comfortable. I think why was because I didn’t try to sell. I think a lot of people in sales or when they think about sales, they have this, they create this pressure for themselves where they feel, “Oh, I need to sell and that means that I need to persuade it. I need to know how to handle these scripts”, and this, that and the other. But what they forget is that people like to buy and you just need to get them comfortable. You need to really understand what is it they want to buy, what problems are they having. So I remember this one specific situation where I had a couple coming in, and then the lady wanted to buy some shoes, and I just served her I didn’t try and sell I was like, you know, what are you looking for and or how’s that feel and you want something different? Or have you thought about signing this? I wasn’t even trying to think about I need to sell her something I just wanted to serve her to. She had a problem, which was the need to get some shoes and I was trying to just provide a solution. And I remember because not only did she buy like a couple pairs of shoes, she talked to whoever the manager was at that time and said, “Yeah, like this guy, whoever he is, he’s doing a really great job”, and I was like, “Yeah, thank you mate. I appreciate that.” But just felt natural. So there was that I sold knives for a while some people are familiar with Cutco as kind of a US related brand. But they’re all over the world. And so I sold knives did very well at that. Again, I never saw it as a sales thing where I had to try and persuade people because I don’t like making people feel uncomfortable. I think, you know, that doesn’t make, I’m not comfortable, someone’s not comfortable. I want people to feel good. And so it’s never big on the idea of trying to pressure someone. I think it’s all about really digging into how can you serve that person, understand their point of view and what’s on their mind and that makes that whole sales process a lot easier.

Christine Schlonski [6:55]
Yeah, totally, totally agree. So what you tell people who feel pressure, who feel they have to, they need to make that sale? So that and that neediness energy, what can they do to shift out of that?

Michael Zipursky [7:13]
Well, the first thing that I would say is, look at sales as something that you do with someone, instead of saying that you do to someone. If you’re creating pressure, you’re thinking, Oh, I need to sell to that person. But if you instead look at it, oh, no, I want to sell with that person or I want to really work with them, like look at sales as collaborative. Look at how can you bring value to the person. How can you, just work with them to find a solution that fits what they want. That makes the process a lot easier. I think the other thing too is that sales is, there’s a lot that you can do before you even have the sale. So if you’re a coach or a consultant, and you’re going to have a conversation with a buyer or a prospective buyer, don’t create, don’t have everything kind of like riding on the line just in that conversation. Ask yourself, what can you be doing before that conversation to provide a lot of value? Can you demonstrate and show an offer and send case studies, podcast interviews that you’ve been on? Can you send them a report or a guide or a video or whatever it might be? So that you’re when that person actually speaks to you, or you kind of get in from, they’re already pre-sold. They already feel like, “Yeah, this person is an expert. Look at these results this person has generated”, and then when you go through your conversation with them, you don’t need to try and persuade them about why they should buy from you. Rather, you can focus your energy on just thinking about how can you serve them. And if you do that, then and really dig into what it is that they want, and what’s holding them back and what happens if they don’t do this? If you really explore their situation, and you paint the picture, so they can clearly see like realistically what’s going to happen from that they don’t do this and what’s gonna happen for them if they do this and why you know, they should think about this. Ultimately, it’s up to them, right? You can’t, you can never force someone to do something. But you can work with them and empower them to make the right choice and not be attached to them. Because if you’re attached to their decision, then you’re going to feel that that neediness, you’re going to feel that need to try and persuade them and push them. But that actually is the exact kind of off, you want the exact opposite, buyers can feel that they can feel that tension, and then they get their guard up. But if you just collaborate with them and find ways that you can serve them, then they let their guard down and they feel more comfortable because then they’re having a conversation with you. And they feel like not only are you an expert but also you have their best interest in mind. And that’s the kind of person that someone wants to do business with.

Christine Schlonski [9:42]
Yeah, yeah, totally agree. So how do you deal with rejection these days?

Michael Zipursky [9:49]
I don’t view it as rejection. I know, what so my observation and understanding are that there’s no salesperson in the world who sells 100% of the time. And the other reality is that not everyone is meant to work with you. Like you might be great at what you do, hopefully, you are. But even though you’re great at what you do, it doesn’t mean that every single person that you speak with is going to be ready for what you have right now. And so if you recognize that it doesn’t create pressure that you need to sell to every single person that you talk to you, what you’ll find is that naturally, the people who are ready will buy and those that aren’t ready won’t buy. But here’s the thing, right? That one conversation doesn’t dictate the future of whether or not that person might buy from you right down the line. If you look at that and you have added value, serve them and then you continue to follow up and to engage with that person. Then what happens is, though, they might not they weren’t ready to buy from you at that, you know, that initial encounter that initial conversation, they might be ready to buy from you in a month, right or six months or a year or three years. Like we have people who have been reading our emails with one client armor. He was reading our email newsletter for over three years, never bought anything from us like no books, no, no nothing. And then he became a 100,000 plus dollar client. But it was because he reached out when he was ready. And if we would have looked at him and said, “Oh, yeah, you rejected us, you know, you didn’t buy from us, we’re not going to focus on you”, then we would have lost that valuable relationship. And so I think if people can just, kind of take some feel confidence or understand that not everyone that you speak with is gonna be ready to buy from you right now then it can relieve a lot of pressure. And you just look at it as a longer-term, kind of game and mindset. And I think that’s a big thing, Christine, is that these days, everyone’s judging their success in a very short like window, where the reality is that true success, the most successful people know that success comes over a longer period of time, don’t create so much pressure for yourself, you need to produce like today, or that, “Oh, I haven’t hit my numbers this month. That means that I’m a failure.” No, as long as you’re learning, and you’re making corrections, and you’re seeking out improvement and guidance, you’ll get better. And as long as you keep doing that over and over and over again, then you’ll look back in a year from now or two years from now, whatever it might be, “Wow, look what I’ve accomplished.” But if you’re judging in a very short window, you’re not going to give yourself the opportunity to really make the strides that you can.

Christine Schlonski [12:29]
Yeah, totally agree that’s like one of the messages that Tony Robbins brings, like, see what you can accomplish in a decade. And often we are just so focused on the now, like the result now today, this week, this month, that we kind of overlook the power of showing up consistently and reaching out again, following up again and helping people to get ready with your amazing input and content because as you just said sometimes it just takes longer, but then they are ready. And then they move forward in ways that you might have never ever expected.

Michael Zipursky [13:09]
Yeah, and I think the other thing too, it’s important in my observation and experience is like, you want to enjoy the process. You got to enjoy what you’re doing right now. Because if you’re not, then you might spend weeks, like months or years working on stuff that you’re not even enjoying. And then if you’re not getting the results that you want in, let’s say, the, you know, that three or six month period and you haven’t even enjoyed the process, that not only are you going to feel like you’re a failure, but you’ll have wasted a lot of time. So it’s, I think it’s a great opportunity for everyone to find what you really enjoy. What can you take from the work that you’re doing and even if you’re not getting the results that you want right now, like recognize that’s okay because even when you’re a successful entrepreneur, you’re not satisfied. Like there’s always the next level, there’s always something that you want more of but if you’re enjoying the process of working through it, then that’s what life’s about. That to me is what business is about is. You get to do the work that you want to do, you get to have freedom, you get to have flexibility. And there’s always a challenge, there’s always going to be some areas that are causing you stress or anxiety or uncertainty. But all that is part of entrepreneurship.

Christine Schlonski [14:22]
Yeah. And it’s a beautiful part because it helps you grow. I think like if you want to do something for your self-development, become an entrepreneur. You’ll find out a lot of stuff about you. And I think it’s one of the fastest tools to grow as a human being.

Michael Zipursky [14:42]
Definitely, yeah, I would agree with that. I think I don’t believe that entrepreneurship is for everyone. I know that some people say, “Yeah, anyone can be an entrepreneur”, and they talk almost negatively about someone if they just have a job like it’s, “Oh, you have a job. That’s a bad thing.” To me. That’s ridiculous. Yeah, you know, it’s, we need people doing whatever they need to be doing, like where they’re happy and they’re contributing, and whether that’s running their own business or working in a job being an employee, like whatever their role is. That’s all good, right? entrepreneurship is amazing. I could never imagine myself not being an entrepreneur and doing what I’ve been doing for you know, for 20 years now, I wouldn’t I would never change that but I also recognize that it’s not for everyone because the reality is it takes work but if you put in the work and you seek the guidance, you seek the counsel you continue kind of up-leveling what you’re doing then you really can create the lifestyle that you want and achieve things that right now you might be looking going like, “Wow, that would be so amazing.” Like you can make it happen if your mind if you can see it right you can achieve it. I think that’s like there’s some quotable that from thinking Grow Rich, where your mind can see and whatever it can achieve. Well, it’s definitely true. I mean, I’ve seen that to be true. If it’s something that comes, like if you can visually see it, then you can make it happen. But you need to understand that it does take work to get there.

Christine Schlonski [16:08]
Yeah, totally. And I was very happy in my job for a long time, till it just wasn’t enough of the freedom like my desire for freedom and for especially like time freedom. Like taking a walk in the afternoon with my dogs because I just feel like it. I’m not commuting to work two hours one way because I’m fed up with it, things like this. It was just such a driver. Because I wasn’t raised with that entrepreneurial spirit. So that was something I had to figure out. And I had to figure out if it was for me or not. So that was very interesting. So you have an email, a newsletter you’re sending out to a ton of people at providing amazing value. I was wondering if you can share it. If you feel like a newsletter would be a good way to connect with your audience and if you feel that as an entrepreneur, you should really build your newsletter list and provide value on a consistent base.

Michael Zipursky [17:17]
Yeah, every business owner should 100%. Now, whether it’s an email newsletter or something you send in physical mail, I think it’s essential. It’s a great asset to your business. Most importantly, I mean, it’s a way to have relationships and add value at scale. So when we send out an email, and it goes to 35,000 plus people, not all and we’re going to read it, but a lot of them will. And a lot of them will get value from that and we don’t send it with an expectation that all those people are going to become paying clients right now. But you do that as a way to foster a community, to add value to that community. And there’s so much that can be done with that. So I would say to any business owner, who doesn’t have a list right now, start right now, even though you might only get a couple of people or 10 people or 50 people or 100 people or whatever, over time, that starts to build. That’s a very valuable asset. I mean, keep in mind that some businesses are actually acquired just for their list, because it’s so valuable, not saying that that’s going to be necessarily your situation, but I think having a list it would be critical for any business owner.

Christine Schlonski [18:33]
Yeah, I also feel it’s a wonderful way to keep in touch and to provide value on a regular base where you know, it’s going to the inbox they choose if they open it, but you know, on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn, they might not see all your posts, provided, you know in their inbox, it definitely is more targeted to support them then when you just do a post somewhere. So I love that idea. So is there a book that has influenced or changed your business or life in a bigger way? What would come to mind? What is the book and why would you want to share it?

Michael Zipursky [19:17]
Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of books. You kind of see behind me like, I read a fair bit. There’s a lot of, one that it’s kinda like my go-to when someone says what book would you recommend? My first response to be like, what are you talking about marketing? Are you talking about sales? Are you talking personal development, mindset, health, wealth, finances like what investments, what are you looking for, but one book that I often recommend to people, it’s called, Straight-Line Leadership, and that’s by Dusan Djukich. It’s really about, it’s not about the leadership of others. It’s about leadership of self. So you’re really mindset and, and stepping up. So, anyone that wants to achieve more, I think that’s a great book. And I’m happy to offer other suggestions or if people have other questions definitely.

Christine Schlonski [20:11]
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And you’re also, well, you didn’t bring us a book but a wonderful 47 page, like smaller book kind of version, consulting a blueprint that people can get. And yeah, let us know where people can go to to get it by sites, the show notes.

Michael Zipursky [20:29]
Yeah, definitely. So again, https://www.consultingsuccess.com/blueprint. It’s a 47 page, blueprint on how to get into consulting, how to grow a consulting business. It covers some of the key topics around marketing and how to have meaningful sales conversations, how to work effectively with clients. So that’s available free at that address.

Christine Schlonski [20:54]
Yeah, wonderful. So what would you want to leave people with as a kind of like a parting piece of guidance?

Michael Zipursky [21:05]
You know, my biggest advice to most people is the idea of imperfect action. If I could just kind of go a little bit deeper than that? My belief and observation, in fact, I wrote a book called, The Elite Consulting Mind, and ended up because I continue to see this over and over with clients and others that we have kind of engage with, that most people don’t achieve what they want. It’s not because they don’t know what to do, most people think that they need the like the latest tactic or the strategy or the technology, they feel like something’s missing. But in fact, most of the challenges that you’re probably having right now, or the results that you want to achieve, that you’re not yet seeing, they’re not related to a tactic or a strategy. You know, most often you actually know what you need to do, but you’re not doing it. There’s something holding you back. There’s a limiting belief, or there’s a fear. And so my suggestion to everyone is just getting very clear. You’re on, what is the action you can take right now that’s going to have the biggest impact. And I, when I talk about an action that’s gonna, have an impact, I’m not talking about busywork, I’m not talking about updating your website or a business plan or, you know, changing the color of your, your logo or anything like that I’m talking about most likely, how can you get in front of your ideal clients in the most direct way possible. And then even though you might have anxiety or fear, there are unknowns around that. Just do it, just whatever it whatever that way is, like, go to a specific event, or make a few phone calls or send a few emails, whatever that that is what you need to do. Do it. Take imperfect action, your messaging doesn’t have to be just perfect, right? Your website and materials don’t have to be just perfect. Nothing has to be perfect cuz the reality is perfection doesn’t exist, right. It’s all just a quest for perfection. But if you want to start seeing greater results in your business and your life, and your finances, and whatever, then the first step is to take action. The most successful people that I’ve studied, worked with observed have achieved high levels of success, not because they were waited to know everything. Rather, they took some action, knowing that they didn’t know everything, but they learned along the way. And that’s critical. Because when you take that first step, you will get the feedback you will learn, you will actually get real feedback as to whether what you’re doing is the right thing or the wrong thing. And if it’s the right thing to do more of it, if it’s the wrong thing, then you know, okay, that doesn’t work. Now you can adjust a little bit and go back out and get stronger and you keep getting that feedback. It’s a loop. And as long as you continue to act on it, you will continue making greater and greater strides. And in a pretty short time, you’ll start seeing some pretty magnificent results.

Christine Schlonski [23:36]
Yeah, wonderful in the pretty short time you might be the so-called overnight success. There you guys, you keep improving. Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you so so much for sharing that wisdom with us and giving so many golden nuggets. I hope that people took tons of notes and will really listen to those episodes because I really enjoyed them. They were very, very valuable. Thank you so much for sharing with us.

Michael Zipursky [24:04]
Thank you, Christine. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Christine Schlonski [24:06]
All right, bye for now.

Michael Zipursky [24:08]
Take care.

Christine Schlonski [24:08]
I just loved having another conversation with Michael because everything he says has such a great foundation and knowing that you just need to put some effort in and follow his system and then you will be successful by reaching out, by connecting, by making your offers and heartfelt way, then you will be much better off and this is true for consultant, for coach for healer, for an accountant. It doesn’t really matter what you do in your business. It is all about relationships, and it’s all about that people love to buy, so you have to give them an invitation if it is a perfect match. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for listening in. Hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/. For the full transcript, the show notes as well as the resources we talked about. Like, Michaels free 47 page consulting blueprint is right over there waiting for you. And all the links to his social media and homepage is just one click away. If you have not yet already checked out the https://christineschlonski.com/hclgs-registration/ , I highly recommend you do so because this is your go-to resource when it comes to lead generation, where we cover all different topics from paid lead generation, to organic to partnerships to mix strategies, and we have 40 amazing experts who share their knowledge with you, so you can get that game to another level. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for tuning in. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world and I’m saying bye for now.