Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hey Gorgeous. This is episode number 163. I’m so excited to have Rebelprenuer Ralph Brogden back on the show today.

Ralph Brogden [0:10]
Hi, this is Ralph Brogden and you are listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:17]
Well, I can’t wait to dive deeper into the topic with Ralph Brogden, “We don’t need echoes we need voices.” And we also talked about like having excuses. Are you more of an introvert? Are you more of an extrovert? How is your personality? What are you doing to really go out there and shine? Ralph Brogden can help people to master their message. He is the best selling author and media consultant with professional degrees in psychology, marketing, and strategic communication. He is also the host of the wonderful Rebelprenuer Radio. I highly recommend you tune in and he is a producer of the WCKG Radio in Chicago, the city I personally laugh. So let’s dive back into the interview this Ralph Brogden. I’m so excited to have Ralph Brogden back on the show today. Welcome.

Ralph Brogden [1:14]
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Christine. It’s such a pleasure to be with you and to talk to you.

Christine Schlonski [1:19]
Yeah, I loved our first interview, and what really, really stuck with me deeply is your wonderful, well, I’m just going to call it quote, “We don’t need echoes, we need voices.” I’m a big believer that every single person has a voice, but it is their choice to find it.

Ralph Brogden [1:42]
Yes.

Christine Schlonski [1:43]
And they have to make that choice to stop echoing other people to play other people’s roles or they really need to find their own voice and that will definitely help with sales, that will help with branding, with marketing, with communication. We finished off the other episode where you said you want to encourage people to have courage.

Ralph Brogden [2:07]
Yes.

Christine Schlonski [2:07]
So how do I find courage in case I’m maybe a bit more of an introvert or I’m a bit scared if my message if my voice is worthy of being heard.

Ralph Brogden [2:21]
Well, believe it or not, I am an introvert. What that means is that I get my energy from being alone, reading, writing, thinking, processing. And yet I’m hosting a radio show, I’m doing podcasts. I’m talking to you. I’m reaching out and working with people in strategic communication. These can be excuses. If you’re introverted It doesn’t mean that you don’t have to communicate it just means that you communicate differently from someone who is an extrovert. Sometimes the extroverts Need to tone it down a little bit. And sometimes the introverts need to turn it up a little bit. But somewhere in between, there is, are this passion and this courage that I’m talking about. A lot of the people that I work with, they lack confidence and the reason they lack confidence, let me back up. That’s not how they present. Their complaint is, “Well, I need more clients. I want to grow my business. I want to make more sales or I want to get to the next level of revenue.” They think they have a sales problem, but they really have a confidence problem. And the reason they have a confidence problem is that they have a communication problem. They are they haven’t really sold themselves on themselves. And if you can’t sell yourself on yourself, you can’t sell yourself and your ideas to other people. So as soon as you have this awareness, of a lack of confidence, you’re just not 100% sure, you don’t know how to communicate, you’re not sure what your value is. First of all, that’s very normal. It’s like trying to give yourself a haircut, you can understand what you want. But to try to do it yourself, it’s really hard. So you can even understand who you are, but trying to come up with the words to convey that in a way to explain that to people. That takes some practice. And you usually can’t do that on your own. It usually takes, just like getting your hair fixed. It usually takes someone on the outside with a different perspective, because a lot of people think, “Well, I don’t have any value.” You absolutely have incredible value. But you have to be able to communicate it for other people to appreciate it and for you to be able to appreciate it and to deliver that value consistently. So I’m saying, if you master your message, it not only translate forms and communicates healing and solutions and problem-solving to other people. But you are transforming your own self. In psychology we call it, self-efficacy, it’s a belief in yourself. Nothing is more effective at building self-efficacy, your own self-confidence, then really mastering your message and knowing 100% without a doubt who you are, why you’re here, who you help the transformation you create. As we said before, that’s going to attract your ideal clients is going to repel people that you don’t need to be working with, for whatever reason, maybe it’s just not a good fit. Or maybe they don’t like your style. Maybe they don’t like your approach, but somebody does. Somebody somewhere needs what you have. But if they don’t know you exist, and if you don’t communicate that clearly to them, then they can’t take advantage of it. The better you get at this, and I’m not saying I’ve arrived, I’m still working on mastering my message as well. This is a lifetime journey of self-improvement. I did copywriter in New York for a few years and a lot of people take the approach that if I need language for my website, or I need email autoresponders written or a campaign will just hire a copywriter to write all this sales jargon. I think what’s happening is, people aren’t really connecting with who they are, they’re not connecting with their voice. Everything starts to sound the same. If everything sounds the same, what happens to attention, attention comes down because it all sounds the same, 5000 marketing messages a day, 10,000 marketing messages a day, and people put up defenses to tune that stuff out because it all sounds the same, because we have outsourced our message to a copywriter instead of really internalizing that message so that we own it, and then we can go out and conquer the world with that message that we have mastered. It all starts in the mindset. And then from there, you just begin to fine-tune and refine in and find the language. I’m saying that’s a lifelong process. I’m also saying that it’s, you’re not likely to do that by yourself. Usually, it takes someone else to say, “Here’s your real value.” You think it’s this, but you have overlooked it’s hard for us to make a good assessment of who we are because we’re too close to hurt themselves. So you’ve got gifts. Bottom line, you’ve got gifts, you’ve got skills, talents, experiences, education, points of view that no one else has. What we have to do is bring that out And find a way to package it, present it to the world so that they can see it and appreciate it so that they can pay you to do whatever it is that you do whatever your gift is, so that you can make a difference in their lives and they can make a difference in your lives. That’s what mastering your message is all about.

Christine Schlonski [8:18]
Yeah, I just love that. I could listen forever because I think it’s so important. It’s also interesting that you mentioned you are more of an introvert especially when I listened to your cool show, the Rebelprenuer Radio. When I hear rather a foreigner doesn’t sound like an introvert but it’s just. Once you found something you are passionate about. It doesn’t matter if you are more of an introvert or an extrovert you will just go for it because passion leads.

Ralph Brogden [8:55]
That’s right.

Christine Schlonski [8:56]
Sharing from that point of view and I always say like sales are love. Because when you really believe in what you do when you know you can support other people you can serve, you will make that difference.

Ralph Brogden [9:10]
You will, you will and regardless of your religious beliefs, whatever your religious beliefs are, love never fails. Love is a universal principle that we can all observe. The Golden Rule is expressed in many different forms of religion. That is essentially the idea of falling in love with your neighbor, falling in love, in this case, in a business case, falling in love with your prospects, falling in love with your clients. That’s why, in my opinion, get rich quick schemes. The different sales and marketing tactics that you see being sold and talked about online. I’m not saying they won’t work, but they are not because it’s not coming from a place of serving others. It’s coming from a place of what can I get and how quickly can I get it. It’s not actually creating value in the long term, may create some short term results. Everything works. I mean robbing a bank works but can is that the highest and best possible use of your gifts and your talents and it might work once. If you’re really good at it, it might work more than once. But that’s not a model of success, because eventually, you’re going to get caught. So just because something works, that in and of itself doesn’t mean that it’s moral or that it is intrinsically valuable or that it is operating from a place of loving and serving other people. So if you get that straight, then it becomes a lot easier to be authentic because you’re genuinely trying to do good in the world. You trying to improve people’s lives and transform them and solve the problems that they have. If that’s where you’re coming from my prediction is that your message will be received very positively. People will want to do business with you if, if they have a need that you can, you can solve. A problem that you can solve, a result that you can deliver. It just comes down to understanding what that is and then connecting with those people. And, you know, Christine, I really think what we have to do is just get rid of this whole sales and marketing mindset that we learned on the internet, or that we learned in the sales training that we’ve attended over the years. It’s just a new way of connecting with people and doing business with people. And I think it’s a better way.

Christine Schlonski [11:46]
I totally agree. And I think also because sales do have this negative taste to it, when especially with heart-centered, driven entrepreneurs with the spiritual world. Like, when they hear sales, they cringe inside. And I believe that’s due to the bad experiences they have made, that somebody just took their money and ran or they have like, some story in the family where somebody was really struggling because they made a wrong purchasing decision. Then all these famous sales movies like Boiler Room or Wolf of Wall Street as not really believing that sales can be loved. So it’s always a good discussion to have. I even wrote a post not that long ago, where I described that when I got that concept, that I can be authentic, that I can be me, that I will repel some people but I will call the right people in. I actually, I fell in love with my customers and I fell in love with people I hadn’t even called. I was just putting myself into that space, where before picking up the phone when I was still in the cold calling business that I thought, “Okay, I love you.” Really strange, especially for Germans like they are a difference. There’s a big difference in culture. When I was in the US everybody likes goes like, “I love you, I love you, I love you.” But in Germany, that’s not the case. We don’t run around and tell everybody that we love them. So that for me, that was like this huge transformation, to put in my mind, I love you and then pick up the phone to know I’m going to deliver value, no matter what they say yes or no, I’m just going to deliver value, whatever their decision is, is fine with me.

Ralph Brogden [13:43]
Exactly. And I’ve heard someone say, “Serve them all and let God sort them out.” A lot of times, a lot of times we take the approach, we’re trying to figure out who we should serve. We’re trying to figure out who’s going to buy and then based on that we decided we’re going to serve them and keeping score, who do we think is going to do what, who is doing what in return. It’s a lot easier just to love them all, serve them all. Let God sorted out. I’m not a big woo-woo person. But when you do what you just said, Christine, and you, you have this affirmation that I love you, whether you communicate it or not. When you are centered in that way, it does create different energy. And with a different energy, you come across much differently and therefore it creates different energy and that other person that there’s something different about you. So I can’t help but believe if we’re coming at business and life from this perspective of serving, and loving others, it’s going to help us master our message. Mastering your message is not about coming up with some killer copy. It’s not — That reminds me of a quote from the Big Kahuna, “As as soon as you begin to direct the conversation in a certain way you’re not a human being having a conversation anymore, you are a marketer. And it doesn’t matter what it is you’re trying to persuade the other person to do.” So to connect with someone as a human being, have a conversation, have a real conversation, love them all. Serve the ones that you can but serve them all with this attitude of in this energy of love. It does, it is transformative and it does change the energy. It elevates the discussion and the conversation. You have to understand, in all of my studies of psychology, social psychology, persuasion, and resistance. The more we try to persuade people the greater their resistance. People are 100% resistant to sales and marketing messages, they tune them out. If that is your approach, then you are fighting an uphill battle. If you can genuinely and not as a play, but as a genuine function of your approach to life in the business, your philosophy is to love them all and let God sort them out. Then you can serve everybody and it creates different energy from what they’re used to hearing and I think people are hungry for that kind of a connection. It definitely gives you a competitive advantage compared to all the other brands out there that are shouting at you all day long, saying, “Buy my stuff. Buy my service. Sign up for this.” It’s just a completely different philosophy, a different change of heart it’s exactly what you’re talking about with heart sales.

Christine Schlonski [17:06]
Yeah, yeah, totally. I want to ask you one step further, because we talked about it in our first interview, that you said, “Well, it starts with your message. And therefore you need to be clear on your values. You know, before you even go out there and communicate your message you need to do the work, the inner work.” And I also believe that if you are approaching sales from that perspective with I love you, you also need to love yourself.

Ralph Brogden [17:39]
Yes.

Christine Schlonski [17:40]
You need to take good care of yourself because when your cup is empty, obviously you can’t serve anybody. So you need to make sure. That’s like a huge thing that’s kind of attached to it where you can start to work on it because if you truly mean that I love you. You can only say that when you would say that to yourself.

Ralph Brogden [18:02]
Yes. That is within the law of love is, “Loving your neighbor as you love yourself.” You can’t love your neighbor if you hate yourself. To make it even more practical, you cannot communicate your value to other people if you don’t see that you are valuable. If you don’t see that you’re valuable. How can you communicate value to someone else? So most people, and I would say I agree with you, Christine, that everyone has a voice and that everyone has value. The difference is how well they communicate that value. And you have to communicate it to yourself first and be convinced of it yourself first before you you can communicate that to other people. And that’s true whether you go in, do the interviews for a job, “Why should we hire you for this job?” If you can’t articulate why you bring value to the relationship, you don’t get the job. If you go to propose marriage to someone, and the person on the other end of that proposal says, “Well, why should I marry you?” If you don’t have some really good reasons why they’re not gonna marry you. Communicating your value, mastering your message, this is not just for business, it’s for relationships, it’s for a career. It’s for anything in this world that requires relationships, which is everything, everybody, everyone is connected. We have to learn to communicate our value and do it in a way that is not braggadocious, arrogant, and we’ve all seen that time. That doesn’t work either. So it really is a skill. It’s an art. It’s a fascinating journey that all of us are on to figure out how to do this. What’s so great about what I do is I get to help other people with that process. It’s just fascinating because no two people are alike.

Christine Schlonski [20:14]
Yeah, so much fun. It’s something that evolves and changes over time. Because when you grow, your focus might grow or your message might change over time. So wherever people are right now, just don’t freak out. Be open to change and to tweak your message, to make it more fitting to your personality, to your values in case it’s not 100% fit at the moment.

Ralph Brogden [20:45]
Look, that’s where when people are talking about imposter syndrome. Well, imposter syndrome that’s exactly what’s happening. You are being an imposter. You’re being what you think other people want you to be your what you think success looks like. And it’s true we can learn from mentors and from other people, but we can’t copy them. And that’s the idea of being a voice and not an echo. Because your value to the world is so unique and so special, that copying someone else doesn’t fully convey the value that you are capable of. And let’s face it, we’re just not going to get that passionate about a message that someone else created, and that we’re just copying. Because it worked for them. We take it and we try to apply it and make it work for us. There’s no passion there. There’s no authenticity there. So take the time, I would say take the time to dig deep into yourself. There’s a whole process, I take my clients through to really understand who they are, what they’re here to do, who they’re here to do it for. And then to communicate that in a way that is special, unique that gets them going, gets them excited. And again that raises the energy and raises the conversation to a higher level and also in allows you to connect with people on a much deeper personal level as well and I think all of that is critically important for any kind of service business that you may be involved in and technically every business is a service business these days

Christine Schlonski [22:24]
Yeah, I totally agree and what it does at the end if you really take that time to dig deep, you will end up having a more fulfilled life.

Ralph Brogden [22:33]
Yes. I’m gonna have fun.

Christine Schlonski [22:36]
Yeah, everyone wants that. Fun, fulfillment, feeling love, love, so that’s a record. So let me ask you what was the first thing you ever sold in your life?

Ralph Brogden [22:50]
First thing I ever sold in my life? That’s a good question. I tell a story about when I first got it, I got started in advertising, sales and

Christine Schlonski [23:00]
The first thing you receive money forever or is there like an earlier time.

Ralph Brogden [23:09]
I think before that I probably sold candy bars door to door. I sold services. I’ve always been attracted to services. I remember I wanted, I needed to make 100 bucks for something. I don’t even remember what the thing was now. But I went around and I knocked on doors and I offered to wash people’s cars. I think for $2.50. It was so ridiculously small. I priced it to sell and lo and behold, people said, “Sure! $2.50 wash my car.” I guess that would have been. I guess that would have to be the —

Christine Schlonski [23:52]
That’s cool.

Ralph Brogden [23:53]
Probably the first thing Yeah. And it was a service on a product. I’ve always been attracted to services. I guess because it just seemed easier for me to find a problem and solve it. And then it was to create a product and just exchange time for money that so that’s how I started out in sales.

Christine Schlonski [24:14]
Yeah. I love it. Entrepreneurial.

Ralph Brogden [24:17]
I was probably 13 years old.

Christine Schlonski [24:19]
Yeah, you created. Well, that need was there. But you pointed it out. So you created your market. I really I love that. Awesome. Well, thank you so, so much for this wonderful conversation. I just want to make sure that people can find you. Obviously, there will be everything in the show notes. But where can people go right now to get more of you.

Ralph Brogden [24:42]
You can get more of me athttps://www.ralphbrogden.com/ That’s the beginning point for everything that I’m doing with strategic communication, publishing, master your message, radio show. everything. And so if this resonates with you and you want to find out more, that would be the place to go https://www.ralphbrogden.com/

Christine Schlonski [25:03]
Awesome. And make sure guys that you subscribe to Rebelprenuer Radio. That’s a really awesome show. Ralph is the host for and creates that and has amazing, amazing guests. I just love tuning in into that show. And yeah, then thank you so so much for spending your time with us today, for sharing all these wonderful nuggets, golden nuggets, and I hope people really get clear on their message. And if they need support, just reach out to Ralph. He’s a great guy to work with. And he really has mastered his message. Thank you so much.

Ralph Brogden [25:42]
Thank you, Christine. It’s been a real pleasure to chat with you. I hope it’s been encouraging and helpful to somebody and look forward to working with you and speaking with you again in the future.

Christine Schlonski [25:54]
Thank you so much. Have a good one. Well, what an episode and I so agree with Ralph when he says it’s a lifetime journey, the self-improvement journey. And yeah, that so resonates with me. And I hope it resonates with you too because you are here, you are listening. So you are looking for improvement, especially in the areas of Heart Sells! and to have fun when selling and to do it with ease, grace, confidence and ask your price. So hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/ and find the podcast tab. There you have the show notes, the transcripts, all the resources we talked about, as well as all the links to connect with Ralph there just one click away. And while you’re over there, check out the Heart-Centered Lead Generation Summit. This will be a wonderful ride for you especially if you are worried where your next clients are going to come from so that you can pay your bills and you are not really focusing on building a business from the heart, thriving because you are worried what the next step might be. Check out, Heart Sells! Lead Generation Summit while you are over there, and make sure you register because there are 40 amazing experts teaching their knowledge to support you with all different ways in lead generation, to get a consistent flow of clients into your door. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are in this beautiful world. And I’m saying bye for now.