Frank Bria is the author of the internationally bestselling book Scale: How to Grow Your Business by Working Less.
He is the go-to authority on scalable program design and execution, having helped thousands of entrepreneurs design and execute their High-Ticket Programs. He started in the fintech sector launching several tech startups.
Now he works with service businesses to craft a superior customer experience – through program and execution.
He lives in Phoenix, AZ and is the father of 3 beautiful daughters.
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Resources in this Episode
The High Ticket Program Black Book www.frankbria.com/blackbook
FREE Course: Christine’s Sales Journaling to Success
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3 Key Points:
- People who have never invested at a high level have a very difficult time getting inside the mind. Psychologically understanding the prospect who’s across the desk from them, because they’ve never gone through that heart-wrenching.
- We all have to learn to value the thing that we want to invest in. And sometimes that means we need to do it ourselves the point that you made about investing at a level that you want to ask for I think it’s true, I think people who have never invested at a high level have a very difficult time getting inside the mind.
- The group dynamic allows you to hear and learn things that you wouldn’t otherwise learn. You hear other people’s experiences, they’re asking questions you never would have thought of. And so you’re getting this, this networking community of learning, which is really important.
[02:34] Because it’s a group program, you have to design very specific milestones, everyone’s got to sort of stay together. So what’s really nice about that for you as the entrepreneur is that you don’t get sort of dragged off into side projects.
[03:09] In a group program, because everyone’s kind of doing the same thing. It keeps you much more focused, it keeps you kind of, as I say, like between the lanes.
[03:28] The group dynamic allows you to hear and learn things that you wouldn’t otherwise learn. You hear other people’s experiences, they’re asking questions you never would have thought of. And so you’re getting this, this networking community of learning, which is really important.
[04:38] If you structure the group program appropriately, you have opportunities for your clients to basically teach back what they’ve learned to others. And we know that in learning theory, one of the ways that people really understand a skill is when they teach it, it’s not just using it.
[07:03] That feeling of rejection, that feeling of when someone says no, it’s kind of like a mix of two things.
[08:34] There’s this portion of being really sad that all of this great opportunity is going to go away.
[08:49] That the thinking about and understanding the loss of opportunity for my prospect, for my potential client is really the thing that should be motivating the and not any of the other stuff.
[11:10] You’re sad for what they’re walking away from, but you can leave all of the personal baggage behind.
[13:40] We all have to learn to value the thing that we want to invest in. And sometimes that means we need to do it ourselves the point that you made about investing at a level that you want to ask for I think it’s true, I think people who have never invested at a high level have a very difficult time getting inside the mind.
[24:47] This is what’s missing, I think, from a lot of people, when they put a group program together, they go, “I’m just gonna put some videos up. We’ll do a call once a week and we’re done.” Well, it doesn’t work that in fact, those programs tend to not work very well, unless you’ve added additional support infrastructure.
[26:08] Just the idea of how to up-level your business by serving at the same time, even at a higher level. It’s just so intriguing.
For FULL Transcript click here:
Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi Gorgeous. This is episode number 139.
Frank Bria [0:06]
Hi, this is Frank Bria and you are listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.
Christine Schlonski [0:12]
I’m so delighted that Frank Bria is back on the show today. We talked about high ticket selling made easy how you can provide a ton of value and also ask for a ton of money. That was in episode 138. If you have not listened to it yet, I highly recommend it. Today, we are going to deepen our conversation in having the conversation about more impact with your high ticket programs. Frank Bria is the author of the internationally best selling book, Scale: How to Grow Your Business by Working Less. He is also the go-to authority on scalable program design and execution. If you are looking to have a high ticket program, Frank Bria is definitely your go-to person. He has helped thousands of entrepreneurs design and executes the high ticket programs. He can do that for you too. Listen to how we are talking about high ticket programs, the fun you can have with it, and how you also can create more impact in the world. Well, I am so happy to continue or to have the next interview with you, Frank, welcome.
Frank Bria [1:29]
Thanks so much for having me back. I appreciate it.
Christine Schlonski [1:31]
Yeah, I love the high ticket conversation. Because it’s not just about adding revenue to the company, it is about creating massive, massive value. You mentioned in the first interview that you always try to 10 X or even 20X from the value proposition of what the customers are paying, and for so many people to wrap their heads around it and to understand that this is a high ticket program, a group program can be so much more value than a one on one coaching. Because people are asking questions. There in the community, there’s maybe more accountability there., Friendships can be formed, maybe gv partnerships or whatever. I really love that approach.
Frank Bria [2:22]
Yeah, we actually find that a group program, there are three things about a group program that creates more value and are more effective than one on one coaching. First of all, because it’s a group program, you have to design very specific milestones, everyone’s got to sort of stay together. So what’s really nice about that for you as the entrepreneur is that you don’t get sort of dragged off into side projects. This happens a lot one on one coaching when you’ve got kind of a path that you want to take the entrepreneur down or your client down. What ends up happening is that they get distracted or pulled off in different directions, or have kind of questions that go off into other areas, which is nice, it’s nice to support, but oftentimes it gets you off track. In a group program, because everyone’s kind of doing the same thing. It keeps you much more focused, it keeps you kind of, as I say, like between the lanes, you know, on the road. That’s the first thing. The second thing that we find is that the group dynamic itself, and you brought this up in our last conversation. The group dynamic allows you to hear and learn things that you wouldn’t otherwise learn. You hear other people’s experiences, they’re asking questions you never would have thought of. You’re getting this, this networking community of learning, which is really important, just like you said, the GV potential, the networking potential, in and of itself is, is really quite solid. One of the things that I learned when I did a lot of Fortune 500 work is that even those Fortune 500 executives want to be in groups, they want to network, they want to be in peers. We oftentimes in the small business space, think, “Well, you would never put a Fortune 500 CEO in a group program”, and actually you do and I’ve run them. They would actually rather be in a group than on their own, because they feel like, if they’re just on their own, it’s not as much of a use of their time. They would rather spend that hour talking to and listening to 10 or 15 people than just one. That’s the second important thing. Then the third is that, if you structure, you have to build this in, but if you structure the group program appropriately, you have opportunities for your clients to basically teach back what they’ve learned to others. And we know that in learning theory, one of the ways that people really understand a skill is when they teach it, it’s not just using it. First, you have to hear it, then you have to do it. If you teach it back, then you really, really, really understand it, it’s really in your head. The group programs are an amazing place to be able to do that when you have a people on a call, someone asked a question and you go, “Christine, you were just actually solving this problem a few weeks ago. Do you want to walk us through how you took care of it?”, and then you have an opportunity to teach back and then become more sort of embedded not only in the process but in your own success, in your own win. You can’t do any of those things in one on one coaching. A lot of people think “Well, that I still get to customize and tailor everything.” But that’s not always a good thing. Getting people to have wait and endpoint and seeing the momentum, that’s really what creates value for clients.
Christine Schlonski [5:46]
Yeah, I love that. Also, we talked about having a vision of the three years, even your program might be a year-long, you always have that long term vision so you can show people well, that’s the mountaintop where we go into, and we’re going to start here, that’s base camp. That’s something I took away. Sometimes we just take it for granted. We know, and therefore we might not express it. But it’s so important to tell your client because they might not see your vision. That’s a really wonderful thing. When you started to create your group programs, I’m quite sure you had to talk to people to get them in, to show them the value. How do you deal with rejection?
Frank Bria [6:33]
Rejection. That’s a thing which, I don’t know. Like, there are some people I guess, who are pretty immune to that. They’re just kind of like, “Up, they said, no, moving on. Next person.” There are some natural people who are, I am not one of those people. I take everything very personally, probably too personal for my own good. I found that feeling of rejection, that feeling of when someone says no, it’s kind of like a mix of two things, I kind of when I sat down and kind of analyze what I was thinking what I was feeling, there’s kind of two things going on there. One, obviously, there’s this feeling of personal, “Well, you must not like me. You must think I’m stupid or whatever. You’re not taking the program”, and then all of the other things that go with it. When people are getting businesses started, and I’ve been here too, you’re like, “Oh, but I needed that sale. I need the cash flow”, and so there’s all this scarcity, and worry and fear that comes into it. But also, there’s this other part, which I was feeling, which was like sadness for the person kind of stepping away from what they could do. Because of the way that I sell, because of the way that I talk to people. So much of that conversation is built around, potentially, because they come to me, and they say, for example, I have this, this health and wellness program that we deliver through a video. We have this PDF, and it’s $297. That’s what we do. Then we sit and we talk about how that could actually be a $5,000 program or a $10,000 or $15,000 program. For the first time, they see the potential in themselves. Then their own scarcity sometimes and their own fear kicks in, and they decide to walk away. There’s this portion of being really sad that all of this great opportunity is going to go away. I was feeling both. I had to give myself a good talking to and realize that the second feeling is more important. That the thinking about and understanding the loss of opportunity for my prospect, for my potential client is really the thing that should be motivating and not any of the other stuff. I don’t do it perfectly. I mean, I don’t know, anyone who does. As I started to get into conversations, I started to realize that, that same fear about people walking away from their potential was also the power in the conversation. If you take that, that feeling of, “Oh, I want this for you.” I want you to get this amazing thing and you can turn that into the positive in the middle of the conversation, you could actually take that same emotion and leverage it. Because then your prospect feels it, the person in that conversation feels that they feel that you’re signed up for them. I remember one is one of my clients, when I first talked to her, and she was just in the sales conversation. She is an organic farming expert, wants to help people sort of leverage the power of natural foods without processing chemicals and additives and stuff in order to cure disease. She’s had an experience where just using better, just using organic foods and getting away from some of these processed chemicals is actually curing people of anti-inflammatory disease and autoimmune diseases they’ve had for a long time. She told me on the call that she was scared because she’s never done anything big before. It’s always been just sort of talking to people. But she had a vision. I said, “Where is this taking you?” She had already picked out property to build her Nutrition Center. This is a woman who literally hadn’t even sold anything for more than $300 yet in her life. And she had picked out where she’s gonna build her farming Nutrition Center, Education Center, she had the whole thing laid out. I’m like, “That’s it.” That’s the ticket right there is to have that same sense of vision and power. That kind of thing that I try to take into the conversation. If people say no, you’re sad about what they’re walking away from, but you can leave all of the personal baggage behind.
Christine Schlonski [11:15]
Yeah, that’s such a good point. Also, I mean, when they come and talk to you. You as a potential coach or mentor, you see their potential. See what they can’t really see, what they might feel inside. That’s why they showed up at your doorstep to figure out if it’s a match or not. Definitely, I have those moments too when I really feel sad for the person. That’s a one really powerful thing that I’ve learned some years ago, is that if you have never invested at that level, that you want to ask. There’s no way you will receive that.
Frank Bria [11:54]
Yeah, it’s very difficult.
Christine Schlonski [11:57]
You have to put yourself into those shoes. If you have, had the fear and maybe the feeling of being scared and signing that contract or sending, giving your credit card and having such an amount on there that just scares you. It’s kind of hard to imagine that for your clients when you start asking for more if you’ve never been there.
Frank Bria [12:24]
For sure. As a bigger point, just being able to recognize the value of the thing that you’re trying to build. So I remember, we had one conversation with someone who was trying to move away from one on one coaching into group coaching because he had run out of time completely. And so he asked us, and this time, I had my saleswoman working on that particular call, but I listened to the call later, he asked her, “Okay, so how much time do I get with Frank one on one?” and she said, “None. It’s a group program”, and he said, “Well, I really don’t know if that’s really a good idea. I really am looking for kind of one on one time with Frank.” My saleswoman, her name is Francine she’s like one of the most brilliant sales ladies I’ve ever worked with. She said, “Let me get this straight. You’re looking to get rid of one on one coaching because you think it’s a waste of your time, and you want to hire somebody who just doesn’t want to one coach, it doesn’t sound like you value the thing you’re actually trying to build, which is leverage and community.” He just sat there for a second. That’s a good point, actually. We all have to learn to value the thing that we want to invest in. And sometimes that means we need to do it ourselves the point that you made about investing at a level that you want to ask for I think it’s true, I think people who have never invested at a high level have a very difficult time getting inside the mind, you know, psychologically understanding the prospect who’s across the desk from them, because they’ve never gone through that heart wrenching. What if I lose this? What if I fail? That’s one of the reasons why selling something for a low ticket is not. I mean, a lot of people will tell you not and I agree. That’s actually just as much effort to sell something at a high ticket than it is a low ticket. Because that low ticket, you automatically sort of thinking, “Well, how much value is this really if it’s just $100? How much could it really be worth it, it really worth my time?” But it’s a different thought process and you really need to understand it if you’re going to start selling at that level.
Christine Schlonski [14:41]
Yeah, and you need to sell a lot more tickets at hundred dollars than at 10,000.
Frank Bria [14:46]
Yeah, just from a business model perspective, the numbers are just crazy. People think, “Oh, well, it’ll be easier.” Yeah, but in order for you to pay your bills, you’re going to have to suddenly have a client base of like, 100 people almost instantly. Can you go from zero to 100 people? That’s a lot of onboarding, that’s a lot of customer service. Even if it’s a, “Oh, well, I don’t have to do anything, because I’m just giving them a PDF.” Oh, no, there are customer service questions. People wanted, they lost their password to the membership site. Yeah, there’s a lot of stuff, you have to automate pretty quickly with that business model. It’s not as easy as a lot of people think it is.
Christine Schlonski [15:28]
Yeah, and you have to put the effort and then selling it. You have to have a sales page explaining where people get. Having one on one conversations and really understanding, as your market, I think I love these conversations because I always find out where the real struggles. Like, if you have automated it, and you have a huge client base, well, perfect, that’s nice additional income. But if you add the place where you do coach one on one, and you really want to move into a high ticket, this is a brilliant starting point, to have conversations to get really, really clear. And to map out something was amazing value that you can ask for the high ticket, this ease, not being scared, like it’s too much. Just if you provide the value and you can communicate it, people will see it, the right people will definitely see it. It makes it easier.
Frank Bria [16:24]
It’s true. One of the things that when we teach people how to launch, we have them use a validation process, which means you talk to real human beings, we don’t just throw up a sales page. Don’t just throw up a, because all of that, you pointed out correctly, all of that automation, but you have to automate something you know actually works. You don’t know it works, you wouldn’t automate it yet. It’s a lot of people do that way too early in the process.
Christine Schlonski [16:49]
Yeah, I totally agree. You try to make it easier for yourself. And then you haven’t found the right angle or the right benefits. They might be there, but you’re not communicating them. That’s really interesting. So what was the first thing you ever sold in your life, like ever? Not your 600,000.
Frank Bria [17:11]
I was 11. We made little dolls out of pom-poms. That was the first thing ever sold. Actually, the first time I hired an employee at age 11, and how little cashbox. I was a complete nerd as a kid. When I was like, 10, 11, like I knew that I was, I liked business. I had this closet, walk-in closet as a kid, and it had a shelf at about chair level. I set my office there up, I had like pens and paper clips. Literally, for my 10th birthday, I got office supplies as a birthday kit.
Christine Schlonski [17:58]
Frank Bria [17:59]
Yeah, we may have little pom-poms dolls and sold them. Sold them the neighbors and stuff like that.
Christine Schlonski [18:06]
Do you think that you are a natural salesperson?
Frank Bria [18:09]
You know, it’s really funny. Until age, probably 25, I would have said, “No way.” I was a teacher. I was an introvert. I was like sales were not the thing. I have a younger brother, who is like the quintessential sales guy. He’s the very out there, like assertive like, “Hey, let’s go grab dinner.” He’s so natural at that. I always kind of looked at that and I’m like, “Whoah, it’s not me, I’m not really that guy.” But when I started consulting, I recognized this consultative sales process. I had this idea in my head of like the used car sales process. That’s not the same thing. It was interesting as fascinating that everything that made me a good teacher, turn me into a good consultative salesperson. Now, I look at it and go, “Oh, yeah, you know what, I guess I was a salesperson all along.” I didn’t really know it. From that perspective, I wouldn’t have identified it that way. But no, I would have assumed I was more the back end, business model strategy, work in the spreadsheets kind of thing.
Christine Schlonski [19:24]
Cool. So you already knew at around 10, that you were made to be an entrepreneur?
Frank Bria [19:29]
Yeah, I did. I didn’t really seriously consider it as a thing for a long time. Even when I was in college and working on my Ph.D., so I could go teach math. I still had some business on the side. I’ve always, even when I’ve had full-time jobs, I’ve always had some side gig going on. It took me a while to like figure out, “Oh, that’s really where you are.” Probably, into my early 30s before I figured out that out. But yeah, I would say there’s been an entrepreneurial streak in me for a while.
Christine Schlonski [20:08]
That’s so cool. I just love it. Like how, when you look back how things come together that you just haven’t seen and then all of a sudden, that everything makes make sense. Along the way, when we grow, and when we get to our next level, and we become the better person and all of this, usually we do have mentors or coaches or support in some way, shape or form. What would be a book that has changed your life or influenced your life in a big way?
Frank Bria [20:42]
Yeah, I would say, one of the books that changed my perspective on business pretty dramatically is from Michael Port. It’s called Book Yourself Solid. A lot of people read that, 10 years ago as they were starting service businesses. The thing that really fascinated me about that book was that it was the first time I saw group programs or the potential for group programs outlined in the small business space. It wasn’t specifically about group programs, but he used examples that were and did a lot of talking about his own mentorship program. It was so fascinating that it just changed my perspective. I like put the book down, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I totally see now, my business in my life.” It impacted me so much. I joined his mentorship program from the book. Invested in him as a mentor. Very quickly in that organization, he let me start teaching back some of the stuff from Fortune 500. I became one of his top three elite coaches in that program. Michael’s been a, not only from a professional author perspective, but a personal mentor in my life, who’s taught me a ton about how to do things. I would say the number one thing I got out of that book, which I absolutely loved, was this idea that there needs to be an alignment between the people that you work with, and who you feel like you’re meant to work with. Because I didn’t really get that before. I spent a lot of time in the financial services sector, and I actually built up quite a very successful practice working with bankers, and I hate bankers, working with them at all. And not like personally, I guess there are very nice bankers that I worked with, but it’s just not exciting to me. It’s not something that, but for a long time, it was like, I felt like it was the thing I had to do. Because I had spent so much time in that industry, I wrote a book about it. I was being asked to speak all over the world on the subject, I kind of felt like I was dragged into it. Michael’s comment in the book, his quote, in the book is, “There are some people in this world you’re meant to serve, and others not so much. And just that ability to like, let go and be aligned finally, to an ideal client was really life-changing.” Even though it’s a simple concept. For me, it was a really big deal.
Christine Schlonski [23:24]
Yeah, I love that. I always talk about soulmate clients. Especially for one on one, or when you put it like, even in a group program where you. If I wouldn’t want you over for dinner or hang out with you then forget it. I will recommend you to somebody elsewhere you can get an amazing service and support, but I’m not the right person. I’m so grateful that I paid attention because so many people are seeing it, that I can really say I have not yet tapped into that issue of saying yes to somebody I didn’t want to work with. I’m really grateful for that. This book then would be included in the awesome teaching. You have a really, really wonderful book, actually for us, which people can find at http://frankbria.com/blackbook which is basically a 12-week course.
Frank Bria [24:25]
It’s everything you would need to put a 12-week course together. Yeah, I and my team have been able to kind of get behind inside a lot of these group programs to see what processes they use, that are working and not working. And so we’ve been able to distill from that for best practices, best practice processes. This is what’s missing, I think, from a lot of people, when they put a group program together, they go, “I’m just gonna put some videos up. We’ll do a call once a week and we’re done.” Well, it doesn’t work that in fact, those programs tend to not work very well, unless you’ve added additional support infrastructure. We talk about the style of programs that work, and what you need to do, how you run it. These operating procedures are literally like step one, step two, step three, really good stuff from all over entrepreneurs from all over who have taught us also about how they do things and taught us what failed, what to avoid because it did work for them as well.
Christine Schlonski [25:29]
Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, I highly encourage everybody to go to http://frankbria.com/blackbook and to get your own copy. Because it’s going to support you. I mean, if you play with the thought like you should be having a group ticket program, that’s a high ticket, that’s definitely the place to go. If you have one, and you might not be 100% happy with where you are. I’m quite sure you find lots of ideas to get to your next level by reading, reading the Black Book. Thank you so, so much, Frank, for I haven’t been on the show. I love the way you teach and the value you bring to the world. And just the idea of how to up-level your business by serving at the same time, even at a higher level. It’s just so intriguing. So I hope that people really take your advice and get on that high ticket program journey. I will have all the links to you in the show notes. So it’s just one click away. And yeah, thanks again for having been here.
Frank Bria [26:30]
Thanks so much as an honor to be here. Thanks for the conversation. It has been great.
Christine Schlonski [26:35]
Well, Don’t you just love the idea of a high ticket program, especially if you’re really really booked with your one on one coaching? A high ticket program can really help you, help your clients even more. I love the idea that some of your superstar clients that have learned and incorporated everything you teach them can actually become teachers in your program to make your life easier. Well, what an idea. So I hope you are running with this idea. I hope you are inspired. Let us know if you have any questions, any comments, any feedback, just email us to email@example.com and also hop on over to https://christineschlonski.com/ for the podcast, the show notes, the transcripts, all the resources that are linked to Frank Bria who has delivered amazing, amazing content and also sign up for the Sales Journaling to Success. That is a free online course I created for you, sharing the sales journaling prompts I have used to shift my mindset into sales success mindset and to make millions selling high ticket live events over the phone. If you are interested in selling at all and selling without fear and really shifting that sales mindset, that might not really serve you because sales still feel icky or pushy or salesy and just something repulse you from selling. You really need to take this course, it’s a free course created for you so yet you can get rock star results. You find that at https://christineschlonski.com/ have fun with it. Thank you so much for being here today. and have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world. Bye for now.
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