Dov Gordon helps consultant and experts get ideal clients. Consistently.
There are millions and millions of consultant/coaches who are really good at what they do. But they’re not charismatic guru types. And they never want to be.
They LOVE their work. And all they want is a consistent flow of great clients. Clients who value their expertise, AND who value who they are as people. And pay them well for it.
Dov and his small team take a tactic-agnostic approach. They help you build a strong strategic foundation and to apply to it to build a simple,
client-getting system that is best for YOU.
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These are wonderful interviews with successful entrepreneurs, (including the Queen of Sales Mindset, host Christine)......who share how they began, what their difficulties were, and the sales mindsets & strategies they used to get to their top. If you've ever had that icky feeling when it come to 'selling' you or your stuff....get some great inspiration here of not only how to sell, but how to think.
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Resources in this Episode
After years of selling his manual – How to Systematically and Consistently Attract First-Rate Clients – you can get it free at https://DovGordon.net/ManualFree
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3 Key Points:
- Our problem is depth, our problem is mastery or lack of it. Our problem is the depth of understanding. Our problem is thinking that I need to know more when really I need to more deeply understand what I already know. Our problem is that wake up in the morning and I say “Well, hey, I’ve got this really valuable skill set. I can really help those types of people.”
- In order for us to break through, in order for us to get to a point where we can really have that next, the stereotypical or the breakthrough, that next level, whatever it is for each of us. We need to learn something different.
- Pricing is a function of a number of different things, including your own confidence. And if you’re charging $1,000, for something and someone comes along and says you should be charging 20,000 for that, you probably should aim for 20,000. But tart by going up to 15 or 2000, or 2500, or maybe 5, because if you start charging a price that you are just it’s just too far out of your realm of experience or understanding, you’re going to drive the client away, it’s not going to work.
[03:25] Anybody who doesn’t think they need to master the basics, I would suggest that in almost every single case, if you’re not getting the results you want, there’s something foundational that’s missing from what you’re doing day to day. It’s not something fancy, it’s something foundational, in in almost every single case.
[04:17] In a day and age like we have today, where there is so much information, there’s information overload of all the time. The greatest value that we can bring to somebody is not to give them more information, the greatest value is to eliminate and say, “I’m going to focus you on the critical 10% that gives you 90% of what you want.
[08:45] Because you have the confidence of a simple repeatable process that actually makes sense to you, and a mentor behind you, who’s helping you deeply understand the thinking the ideas that you’ve already acquired, you’re able to keep hitting, and then one day you hit the wall, then suddenly, the wall crumbles.
[09:19] In order for us to break through, in order for us to get to a point where we can really have that next, the stereotypical or the breakthrough, that next level, whatever it is for each of us. We need to learn something different. The way I see it is that there are three, we don’t need more and more information. We need to change how we think. We need to change how we feel our emotional mastery, and we need to change how we work.
[10:22] To me mastery is, there three parts to it. Number one is you have to know what information actually matters. There is so much information out there. This is what I really made an effort to eliminate. Everything but what you really need to know, there’s so much knowledge and information out there. You need somebody to build to help you understand.
[14:21] The challenge is that you have to become better and better and better not just at your core craft, but at communicating about it, getting it out letting people know what you can do for them. And in some way that like we have to grow before we’re able to lead.
[22:28] When we ask for money when we make our offers or create our offers, that often that could be a stumbling block, because of these experiences as a child.
[25:55] There are people who are really good at what they do. And that’s why they left the corporate world. And they want to startup as consultants or experts of one kind or another. And we’re good at what you did, because you approached your craft with common sense.
For FULL Transcript click here:
Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi Gorgeous. This is episode number 121 with Dov Gordon, the alchemist entrepreneur.
Dov Gordon [0:09]
Hi, this is Dov Gordon, and you are listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.
Christine Schlonski [0:17]
I am so excited to have Dov Gordon back on the show today. And today we are going to talk about foundations and what foundations have to do with the fact that you might not really have the results you are desiring right now. I hope you have subscribed to Heart Sells! Podcast, please leave a rating and a review. Also, please share this too of your amazing friends. Because we want to build a tribe of heart sellers having fun while selling being authentic and true to their values and delivering amazing, amazing value to their tribe. Let’s dive in with Dov, Dov helps consultants and experts to get ideal clients consistently. Because there are millions and millions of consultants and coaches out there who are really, really good at what they do. But they’re not really the charismatic guru types. And also they don’t want to be. They love their work and all they want is a consistent flow of great clients. Clients who value their expertise, and who value who they are as people. Also, pay them well for it. Dov and his small team take a tactic-agnostic approach. They help you build a strong strategic foundation, and to apply it to build a simple client getting system that is best for you. So excited that Dov was back. So let’s dive in. I am so happy you are back on Heart Sells! Podcast. Welcome, Dov.
Dov Gordon [1:52]
Great to be back. Thanks for having me.
Christine Schlonski [1:54]
Yes, so exciting. I loved our first conversation and what really, really stuck with me is that, well, I made it up, you don’t call it like this, but the no fluff strategy, where you actually produce something that you’ve sold for years and then decided, “All right, I’m just going to give it away because it adds so much value to people.” And when they read it, when they learned from it, when they have done with it, they have such a better understanding of how they can take their business to the next level. And if they then feel like I would be the perfect coach or mentor or consultant, they will come and you don’t need to do anything, basically. You just need to hold that space and have a phone number or conversation with them. I really love that strategy. What made you decide to switch from going paid to actually offering it for free?
Dov Gordon [3:00]
Well, I wrote this manual, they call it, ‘My Manual’ because it’s just kind of the basics. I mean, and barely basics in the sense that like, I remember hearing that white belt learns the basics and a black belt is learning the same basics, same whatever, seven moves, whatever, depending what karate school your, you know, martial arts school, you’re a part of, but it’s just the at a much higher level. Anybody who doesn’t think they need to master the basics, I would suggest that in almost every single case, if you’re not getting the results you want, there’s something foundational that’s missing from what you’re doing day to day. It’s not something fancy, it’s something foundational in almost every single case. I wrote it in about six weeks, but a lot of, I think are probably put three and a half, four hours a day over about six weeks, really just working at it. The hardest part I think was eliminating, was cutting out, because I did not want to have. I just wasn’t interested in sharing everything that I knew, I was not interested in justifying the value and will actually experiment with that because I know any of all of us to know a lot, but that’s not necessarily what our reader or our client needs to know. In a day and age, like we have today, where there is so much information, there’s information overload of all the time. The greatest value that we can bring to somebody is not to give them more information, the greatest value is to eliminate and say, “I’m going to focus you on the critical 10% that gives you 90% of what you want. I realized years ago that I think of this as the I’m not a blinking problem, Abraham Lincoln being President of the United States, one of the greatest by most accounts. He grew up in poverty in the backwoods of Illinois, Kentucky, I forgot. He lived a mile, two miles from a neighbor, no books, no libraries down locker, Kindle. He read, he would have to walk a mile to a neighbor to borrow a book and then read it and then return it. He read the classics, the Bible, Pilgrims Progress and other books, I forget the whole list. He read these classic books again and again and again. It affected his thinking and it affected his language, it helped us deepen, give him a deeper understanding of people. If you think about books that have lasted the test of time like that, in some way, they’re talking to us. They’re talking to something that’s deep inside all of us, that really resonates. That went into him. He didn’t just read thousands of books but he read maybe be a couple of dozen, but a few dozen, but he read them repeatedly and they impacted him. I think that today we have the opposite problem. The, “I’m not Abraham problem”, because I know I’ve got, I probably have more books in my Kindle library and my iPad or phone, then he read his whole life, probably. Our problem is depth, our problem is mastery or lack of it. Our problem is the depth of understanding. Our problem is thinking that I need to know more when really I need to more deeply understand what I already know. Our problem is that wake up in the morning and I say “Well, hey, I’ve got this really valuable skill set. I can really help those types of people.” How like our clients, and then we watch a webinar or whatever it might be, we read a book, and then we go, “Okay, I got it now”, and we take a step. We start working on it. We make some progress, and then we hit a wall. And we hit the wall and right away, we fall into the clutches of the three doubts, the three doubts are; 1.) Am I doing the right thing?; 2.)Am I doing it right?; 3.) And then how come it’s not working for me or whatever works for me? Almost as quickly, suddenly, we start to think, “Well, I must not know how.”, like the Roomba vacuum cleaner, we hit the wall, “I must not know enough.” We bounce off in another direction, looking for more knowledge, more information, another book and other course and other programs, and so on. What we really need though, is we need someone to look at what we’re doing and say, “Oh, you hit the wall.”, and then, “Am I doing the right thing?” “This part of what you’re doing is good, is right. This part is a little off, fix this, right? Good, now hit the wall, take a chip out of it. Hit the wall, take a chip out of it” Then you continue, instead of bouncing off, you continue. You hit the wall, you take a chip out of it, you hit the wall, take a chip out of it. And at some point, it’s just not going anywhere. The chips aren’t falling anymore, you feel like something changed, something’s off. And then you turn around to your mentor, your coach, whoever it is that has already done what you’re trying to do. And you say, “Well, am I doing it right?”, and they look at what you’re doing and they say, “This parts right, this part still off, let’s adjust this. Let’s fix that. Make that change.” Good. They could see in minutes, what would take you years to see for yourself and just can’t see it for ourselves. Even if we can often see it for somebody else, by the way. Sometimes we could. Sometimes we can. So and then again, you’re back. Now, hit the wall take a chip out of it. Hit the wall until again, you get stuck. And you start to wonder, “Is this ever going to work for me? Why isn’t it working for me?”, and they say, “You’re doing the right thing. You’re doing it right. Now it’s a matter of doing it, continue doing it.” Then because you have that confidence. We talked about confidence, the other conversation, it’s something that comes up a lot on your podcast, right? Because you have the confidence of a simple repeatable process that actually makes sense to you, and a mentor behind you, who’s helping you deeply understand the thinking the ideas that you’ve already acquired, you’re able to keep hitting, and then one day you hit the wall, then suddenly, the wall crumbles. And it’s at that moment, you’re like, “Wow”, the dust is flying everywhere. You hit the wall, it crumbles, you step through the wall. It’s at that moment that you understand all of that information you’ve been collecting. Because, as I said, in our other conversation, in order for us to break through, in order for us to get to a point where we can really have that next, the stereotypical or the breakthrough, that next level, whatever it is for each of us. We need to learn something different. The way I see it is that there are three, we don’t need more and more information. We need to change how we think. We need to change how we feel our emotional mastery, and we need to change how we work. Those are really the three things we need to learn. In order to have that, it’s not about more information. But we do have to come to understand something. I need to learn, I need some kind of learning experience. But it’s not something you can get from a book, it’s not something that anybody can just tell it to you “Oh, this is how it is.” It’s something you have to learn from your own experience. The problem is if we bounce off and run another direction thing, I don’t know enough, we don’t have enough experience, we never get to that point. So we really need a combination of what I think, you got it, mastery has three levels. We’re talking about the path of the cosmetic guru, and the path of mastery before. To me, mastery is, there three parts to it. Number one is you have to know what information actually matters. There is so much information out there. This is what I really made an effort to eliminate. Everything but what you really need to know, there’s so much knowledge and information out there. You need somebody to help you understand. Christine, this is the critical 10% that will give you 90% of what you want. This is the critical 10% that makes it a brilliant 90% of the time. For now, ignore the 90% focus on the 10%. If you don’t have that mentor, that coach helping you see that then you’re going to waste years of your life trying to figure out for yourself, what is the 10% that actually gives you 90% because that’s a fact, that’s the way the world is. Then you need to take, you need to study that 10% and then you need to go out and implement it, that’s the second step, do something with it. Use it. Live it. And that’s you gotta hit the wall. When you go out and do something, you’re going to have experienced. Some of it, you’re going to get some kind of results, some of those results, you’re gonna like, some of them you’re not gonna like. And then the third step is you go back to your coach and mentor and say, “Hey, you taught me this. Here’s what I did with it and these are the results. Some of them I like. Some I don’t like and help me improve”, and your coach, your mentor looks at what you’re doing. And in an instant, or minutes, or maybe hours, they can see precisely what you need to change because they could see what you cannot. Because they’ve already learned these things by their own experience. They can point you and say, “This is what matters, this is what doesn’t. Make this change.”, you then have to go back and still live it yourself before you can really understand it. When the wall crumbles, you suddenly understand the things you already know. It’s like the light. It’s not I mean, it’s like, I remember the first time I did an online launch, and I’m not a fan of launches, I don’t do launches anymore. But I didn’t know. Everybody was doing launches. And I thought I should do a launch. I spent about three months setting it up between figuring out a membership site. And I didn’t know what I was getting into. I didn’t know what I didn’t know, this is going back quite a number of years. And then I made, I think I made one sale of $750. But as soon as I finished that last Telus seminar. And I was obviously very frustrated, disappointed. There were Telus seminars back then, webinars were not as popular and are easily available. I suddenly understood advice that I’ve been getting all the long. Suddenly, certain things clicked into place like, the wall fell, the wall crumbled, and I was standing there in the dust. And I finally understood it. And that sense that I had a certain success and finally got it. I learned what I needed to learn so that the next time it was better, next time a lot better. Interestingly, when you step to the wall, and as you’re brushing yourself off and patting yourself on the back and feeling really good about yourself, you look up and suddenly you see that right there, right off in the not too distant, the distance over there is another wall, and it’s taller, and it’s thicker. And that’s what life is, life is the opportunity to keep growing and learning. The irony is that we all are looking to creatively contribute to others. That’s what our businesses are about. If we can create in a way that contributes. We’re all creators, we’re creating something even if it’s consulting and giving advice, but it’s getting better at that. You think that “If I’m good at this, I can help people to line up and buy, right?” No, but the world is in such a way that you have to earn the right to lead people, sales and leadership. They’re looking for leadership in a certain area. The challenge is that you have to become better and better and better not just at your core craft, but at communicating about it, getting it out letting people know what you can do for them. And in some way that like we have to grow before we’re able to lead. It was quite a tangent because I think I started explaining about writing the manual,
Christine Schlonski [14:42]
Yeah, by myself into one thing to the other. So it was very viable. And people can actually get the manual at https://dovgordon.net/heartsells. I will also put a link, obviously, in the show notes. You said something, I mean, you said a lot of amazing things. And I definitely have to relisten myself to catch all the golden nuggets. But there was something that you said at the beginning, where if something doesn’t work, it’s usually something off on your basics. I was like, “Wow, that’s so true.” Because I remember I’ve been in high ticket sales for such a long time. When everything stopped working for me, I always had to find my way back to the basics, like picking up the phone, making that call, going back to the original pitch, so to speak. And it’s so interesting because it is so true. But on the way to mastery, of course, we do experience a little bit here and we try different things. But coming back to the basic is so magical.
Dov Gordon [16:00]
Christine Schlonski [16:01]
It’s so important that people get that concept. That it’s not the amount or the number of advice you receive or information you can gather. It’s really what you do with them.
Dov Gordon [16:15]
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And for whatever reason, anything but the basics. The shiny objects, the expensive, it’s all more attractive, as superficially, for whatever reason. We have to learn to enjoy the basics. I remember reading a blog post by James Clear, he wrote ‘Atomic Habits’, I think his books called. This long before his book. He talked about how he was at the gym one day, I think this is it was the gym one day and a well-known coach who’d walked in, a coached Olympic athletes who were in the gym that day. He went over and ask them, “What’s the difference between someone who’s really good and someone who makes the Olympics?” I’m paraphrasing from memory, obviously, you can look it up, find it on his website, but the coach told him that the real difference is that those who really are Olympic level are the ones who show up every day, and they do the repetition. They push through the boredom, they push through, they do what has to be done. Whereas most people are looking for something more exciting.
Christine Schlonski [17:32]
Dov Gordon [17:32]
And someone else and just remembers now, I think this is Dean Jackson, I think, direct marketer, I think, the way he said this is going back so many years, it just popped into my head. He says, “I’d rather have, to most people want to have an exciting business, and therefore they have boring lives. Because they’re so caught up in the fires of their business, is I want to have a boring business so I can live an exciting life.”
Christine Schlonski [17:54]
Dov Gordon [17:56]
Christine Schlonski [17:58]
But talking about at several years back. Yeah, what was the first thing that you ever sold in your life?
Dov Gordon [18:08]
I believe the first thing I ever sold was a magic show. I was as a kid, as a kid, I was a magician, an amateur. And then a semi-professional. And even as a 10, 11, 12-year old I was doing some small show here or there for a birthday party or I did one on our front porch. I remember maybe more than one inviting the neighbors. So that’s sales, you have to sell, you have to sell yourself as a performer. I was pretty good. I think I hadn’t necessarily any tremendous, unique talent there. But I put into work and I mastered certain tricks. And it was good. There was fun. I also did the chart, the selling candy bars, and chocolate bars and in school, but that came later.
Christine Schlonski [18:59]
So did you charge for your show or was it more like getting people into the room?
Dov Gordon [19:05]
Well, there are sometimes we’re like, there were, I did some birthday parties. Obviously, you charge for that. I did somewhere was kind of a, I remember some organization, couple organizations would. I did a show for some fair or carnival they were they were having, so yeah. There was also one thing I did on their front porch for the neighborhood kids. I don’t know if I charged for that. I don’t remember.
Christine Schlonski [19:33]
Probably, everybody could give that chocolate if they wanted to.
Dov Gordon [19:37]
Yeah, I suppose.
Christine Schlonski [19:40]
Do you remember when you actually received money for the first time you delivered that service?
Dov Gordon [19:48]
I think I do. I think I remember, a particular show I did for some of to help raise money for some organization. They’re having some Carnival and they did pay me. Definitely remember later experiences where I was, as a 16-year old I was doing a very short-lived stint doing magic for adults at a kids indoor amusement park. The adults would come and drop their kids off to play for a couple of hours and in the balls and whatever they had there. And the adults would sit, order pizza and wait. So the guy hired me to go table the table. It was a really good experience, unfortunately, didn’t last very long. Because about a month after. After he hired me they went out of business. I think he might have been paying me too much. But I do remember that I got one tip. I got one tip from doing that. It was the guy who, at first didn’t want me to perform. He’s like no nothing. Somehow, I don’t know what I said or exactly I did. But he agreed. He was, “Okay, fine.” And then he enjoyed it so much that he actually, he was the one person I remember who gave me a tip. I don’t know why. If tipping is common for a magician in a restaurant or not. But yeah, so I guess that was a sale as well. And I was a little earlier, though.
Christine Schlonski [21:16]
Yeah. And do you remember what, I mean, was it like, easy for you to accept the tip?
Dov Gordon [21:24]
I think it was easy for me to accept that tip. But in terms of being comfortable charging what I’m worth, that’s something that I’ve definitely had to get better at over the years becoming more comfortable. Even charging friends or neighbors for business. If we’re doing something as friends or neighbors, it is one thing. If we’re doing something that’s business, it’s something else. Interestingly enough, I do remember performing for a birthday party as a kid and being stiffed, not being paid, but I should have been paid. The mother of the birthday girl somehow met, a relative. So maybe that’s how she got away with it. I don’t think she actually meant it in a negative way. But somehow she’s like, presented it as it was wonderful and it was my opportunity to perform. And wasn’t I happy about that? And I’m not sure where the communication broke down. But I didn’t I never did get paid for that. And I still remember.
Christine Schlonski [22:21]
Yeah, I think those little things often we keep them with us. And it does influence. When we ask for money when we make our offers or create our offers, that often that could be a stumbling block, because of these experiences as a child.
Dov Gordon [22:41]
Could be. I mean, in my case, I don’t know if it’s that, but I definitely had to grow through the point of where you’re uncomfortable asking for money. I mean, I was, I might still be sometimes but not in the usual situations that I find myself at this point. And you really just have to be really clear that and recognize that I pay people what they asked when I want to service or product. Most of us who were uncomfortable receiving money. We wouldn’t think twice about paying somebody else what they deserve what we feel like we’re very fair and not we’re not the trying to drive hard bargains, usually, at least this our type of person like that, right? And it recognizes that why am I willing to pay somebody else has because they recognize the value, or recognize the value. And I need to recognize my own value to the person who I’m selling it to. And I also think that pricing is a matter of growing confidence. So I don’t think the idea of pricing is where, “Hey, you should be charging at least $10,000 or $15,000, or $25,000, for this or that service.” That’s the kind of advice that some people are giving. In my view, pricing is a function of a number of different things, including your own confidence. And if you’re charging $1,000, for something and someone comes along and says you should be charging 20,000 for that, you probably should aim for 20,000. But tart by going up to 15 or 2000, or 2500, or maybe 5, because if you start charging a price that you are just it’s just too far out of your realm of experience or understanding, you’re going to drive the client away, it’s not going to work. Pricing is an interesting thing. It’s a combination of people, even if we’re pricing, I generally believe in pricing by value when you can and can more often than then many people realize. You need a client who perceives that value, who has the ability to pay for that value. And not everybody does. And they want and they see that you are the only person really you’re the best person to deliver that value. And you need to see very much the same things. When that’s where you can all meet and exchange a generous fee where everybody feels like they’re getting a great deal. But, part of the problem with a lot of advice out there like, “Oh, you should be charging whatever”, you come across that it’s maybe it’s been a while since I’ve actually heard it myself. But I do remember people giving me advice, “Oh, yeah, you gotta charge at least this amount. Why? Because that’s what everybody charges for. That’s what you should charge.” But it’s not true. And it’s a pitfall that you need to be aware of. And again, go back to your own common sense. I don’t know where we’re doing with time. But this is a thing, a key idea to wrap up with.
Dov Gordon [25:55]
There are people who are really good at what they do. And that’s why they left the corporate world. And they want to startup as consultants or experts of one kind or another. And we’re good at what you did because you approached your craft with common sense. You master your craft, I don’t care if you’re a logistics expert, or a leadership consultant, or marketing consultant of one kind or another. And we’ve actually worked with money, you know what they need, even marketing consultants need help with marketing and sales, we all need some help. You have to realize that just like it, you can’t become a great heart surgeon or a great logistics expert or anything by following somebody five-point checklist, their blueprint for whatever. The same thing is true with marketing and selling your expertise, it is not as simple as flipping a light switch where you didn’t have to have an understanding of how it works. There a new is a nuanced skill set. And the same, just like you would never never have believed anybody would come and tell you, “Hey, you can master logistics, by just do what I did. Just do this, do that.” And then you too will be like a world-renowned expert and complicated logistics or whatever it might be. Just like you wouldn’t believe that don’t believe it when it comes to marketing and sales. Because it’s not true. And the sooner you understand that the sooner you’ll raise your standards in terms of the kind of help you’re actually looking for. So bring common sense to the next journey of turning your expertise into a thriving, profitable business for yourself. That’s my final thought.
Christine Schlonski [27:28]
That’s a wonderful wrap up of this episode. Thank you so so much. They were so thank you. So yeah, have a really wonderful day and let us know again where we can get the wonderful manual.
Dov Gordon [27:43]
Yes, https://dovgordon.net/heartsells and just take a very simple, step by step, thoughtful action plan approach to some of the ideas that we talked about last time and this time as well. Really, it’s called a manual because it’s like, you know, here’s the thinking and here’s what you do. Here’s the thinking here’s what either, you got it, you need both.
Christine Schlonski [28:08]
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, and have a wonderful day.
Dov Gordon [28:12]
Christine Schlonski [28:13]
Well, I’m so grateful for another episode with Dov Gordon. Make sure you hop on over to http://christineschlonski.com. Find the podcast tab and get the free manual that provides amazing, amazing value and really will help you on your journey to get your ideal clients consistently. Thank you so much for tuning in. Make sure you subscribe to Heart Sells! Podcast and thank you so much for leaving a rating and a review. Plus, sharing it with your friends. I can’t wait for you to tune into the next episode. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are, and I’m saying bye for now.
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