Resources in this Episode:

Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi Gorgeous! This is episode number 072 with the wonderful Laura Gassner Otting.

Laura Gassner Otting [0:09]
Hi, this is Laura Gassner Otting and you’re listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski, hope you enjoy!

Christine Schlonski [0:16]
I’m so thrilled you’re here today because the conversation with Laura will all be about being limitless. About carving your own path, about living your best life, and the way to do that could be well, by ignoring everybody around you. Lauren has just published her very new book Limitless, you will find those resources at christineschlonski.com, look for the podcast, tap Heart Sells! Podcast, and check out everything about Laura, her bio, there will be the show notes, and then obviously all the resources we are sharing and the transcript. So make sure you to check that out, hop on over to christineschlonski.com. And while you’re over there, there is another amazing resource, a class that is be taught from the 15th of May till the 25th, it’ss called the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass. This is already the third class and again, I have gathered for you 20 outstanding experts, world-class entrepreneurs, who show you spiritual and practical steps, how you can increase your sales and create true wealth without losing your authenticity. So hop on over to christineschlonski.com, find the masterclass in the tap, and if you have not yet make sure you reserve your spot, this is nothing you want to miss. The experts are just super outstanding, super successful, and they share with you how they got there. Because you know, we don’t start out where we are right now. So make sure you have a listen, and now please enjoy the episode with Laura, because Laura speaks with change agents, with entrepreneurs, investors, leaders, and donors, to get them past the doubt and the indecision that consigned their great ideas to limbo. She delivers strategic thinking, well-honed wisdom and catalytic perspective informed by decades of navigating change across the startup, nonprofit, political and philanthropic landscape. I am so super excited to have her here because she is a rock star, and you will know why! Have fun and enjoy listening. I am so excited to have you on Heart Sells! Podcast Laura, welcome!

Laura Gassner Otting [2:54]
Thank you. I’m really glad to be here!

Christine Schlonski [2:55]
Yeah, and congratulations on your new book that just came out very, very recently. And I just love the title, Limitless: how to sorry, How to Ignore Everybody, Carve your Own Path, and Live Your Best Life.

Laura Gassner Otting [3:16]
Yeah, the book was originally called Purpose: How to do Work that Matters. And it just, it just didn’t seem enough for somebody to want to change their life and do big things and have confidence to dream, you know, dream big and do big and so that the title came about through a lot of, what do we want people feel like after they’ve finished reading the boo? And we wanted people to be limitless! So there it is.

Christine Schlonski [3:41]
Yes, I just love it. And I, I so feel into ignore everybody, so that you can carve your own path. And I think that is something that entrepreneurs are really, really on, when they start that journey.

Laura Gassner Otting [3:56]
I think so too. And frankly, I think you know, it is both the hardest part of it and also the most obvious, right? If you want to be happy, we have to stop living everybody else’s lives, we have to stop living everybody else’s definition of what success means for them, and figure out what it means for us, and the only way to do that is to ignore everybody else and all of their own definitions of success and all the expectations, and the burdens and the limitations that they put on us. So it’s, it’s, you know, to say to people like, well, what’s the first step of like? Just stop listening to everybody else around you, and what they’re telling you, you should do it! Figure out what you want to do yourself, and do that.

Christine Schlonski [4:33]
Yes, yes. So how did you get on your path, because I found it quite an interesting one, to figure out that I need to listen just to myself. And I really need to you know, I mean, there are people that you love, like your parents, or your you know, your family and everybody has advice for you. And everybody tries to protect you from that dangerous entrepreneurial journey.

Laura Gassner Otting [5:01]
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I had a fourth-grade teacher who said, you know, you’re a pretty argumentative young kid, you should be a lawyer. And I was like, oh okay, that sounds good. And then I spent the next 10 years creating an educational path that got me to law school, where on the very first week I looked around, and I was like, I don’t belong here, I’m in the wrong place. I don’t want to be a lawyer. And then I dropped out of school, and I ended up in Washington, DC working on a presidential campaign. And there I was dating the man of my mother’s dreams, who, you know, was a nice, a nice young man, medical student, came from a good family, like it was, that was a definition of success. My mom was like, he’s the one and I’m like, yeah, I don’t really think so. And then I, you know, I ended up in the big job, in the big office, and I had the fancy title, and the fancy view of the park and my boss defined success, that’s the big fat bottom line. And I was defining success as mission first for my clients, and I wasn’t jelling they’re either, and so throughout my life, and throughout each of our lives, we’re given these scorecards of success, right? You’d make a good lawyer, you should marry the nice guy, you should go get the, you know, the fastest, most expedient path to the corner office. And then we turn around one day, and we’re like, all right, so I made it to the top, at the top of what? And is this really where I want to be? And if I know that I’m going to be successful, and I’ve gotten to the top and so on paper, I have the right life. Why does it not feel right? Why does it feel empty? Why have I checked off all the boxes on everybody else’s path, everyone else’s definition of success, and then turn around one day and went, I’m living someone else’s life? So you know, I think we all get on these paths, because along the way, we have teachers who, you know, unintentionally define us, we have parents who are trying to protect us, we have bosses that see us as not human beings, but you know, a box on the, on the organizational chart or a line on the profit and loss statement. And we, we go about fulfilling all of the expectations, not realizing that along the way, all those expectations you are doing are really just limiting us from living the lives that we know we could live.

Christine Schlonski [7:10]
Yeah, so, and then when you realized all that, you said, well, screw it, I’m just gonna do my thing.

Laura Gassner Otting [7:18]
Well no, when I realized all that, I went, oh, no wonder I’m not happy. What on earth am I going to do? Right? Because doing your own thing takes a huge amount of confidence. It takes a huge amount of bravado, courage, all of these things that we don’t necessarily have mostly because we don’t know how to develop them. You know, we look around, we’re like, oh, he’s so confident, she’s so confident, I wish I could be confident. And then we think the way to be confident is just to dream big dreams. And the truth is, that actually doesn’t make you confident, you know, following your passion is the world’s worst advice. It’s like the spoken illegitimate sister of the live, love, laugh tattoo. Like it just, it’s not a destination. It’s not even a roadmap. In fact, it’s an Instagram meme. And so we think we could do it if we just look at over that big mountain top. But the truth is, if we say, I want to climb to the top of the mountain, we get to the top of the mountain and we go, oh, there’s actually six more mountains that now I can see that are actually taller. And so if we just dream, a big dream, first of all, we’re underselling ourselves, because we don’t even know what the top of the mountain looks like. And second of all, that’s not going to be the thing that helps us get there. So the way to dream big things, the way to have confidence and having those bold, audacious goals is to start developing competence. You put one foot in front of the other, and you run a mile, and then you’re like, oh, I could string three of these together and run a 5K, and oh, what if I did that twice, I could do a 10K. But nobody wakes up one day and says, I can dream I can run a marathon, they’ve already started running. And in the running, they’ve developed the competence, to give them the audacity to have the confidence in that bigger goal.

Christine Schlonski [8:57]
I love it. I love it. And, you know, so often I talk to my clients and want to dream bigger. And second, you should take it one step at a time. I think that you would, as you just mentioned, you know, you’ve got to see one mountain you want to climb, but then not making it your end goal.

Laura Gassner Otting [9:15]
Yes!

Christine Schlonski [9:15]
Just being prepared that there, when you develop, your dreams might develop as well.

Christine Schlonski [9:22]
Your possibilities and competence develops, so there’s more in the game.

Laura Gassner Otting [9:22]
Absolutely!

Laura Gassner Otting [9:29]
Absolutely. I mean, you, you, we never know how big our dreams can be because every time we climb to the next mountain, we see another vista out in front of us. And you know, I had somebody ask me on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, like, well, so here you are, you figured it out, you’re fully formed your you, and I was like, oh my god, I hope I’m not fully formed. I mean, that would be really boring. I like the fact that I’m continuing to learn new things, because I think that we all have multitudes within us, and I love that this journey is taking me to a place where things are new and scary, and exciting, and exhausting, and exhilarating, and terrifying and wonder hell, it’s terrific.

Christine Schlonski [10:12]
Yeah, yeah, it makes life so much more fun and interesting.

Laura Gassner Otting [10:16]
Absolutely.

Christine Schlonski [10:17]
Yeah. Love it. So you, you seem to be very, very confident, but I’m getting the idea that it might not have been this way, always. So what did you do to take those first steps into the right direction?

Laura Gassner Otting [10:34]
So it’s an interesting question. You know, I, I speak onstage for a living. And I’m, you know, every week in front of thousands of people, and there’s always a young person who comes up to me at the end, who asked me some kind of question that goes something along the lines of, when did you get to be so confident? And sometimes it’s, when did you get, when did you figure it out, and get all your your act together? When did you become so fierce? When did you become bold? It’s like some version of that. And I think those questions are hilarious because I’m the same giant bag of insecurities as everyone else. I don’t know that I am actually confident. I went to computer sleepaway camp when I was 14 years old. I mean, I’m like a big giant nerd deep, not even so deep down. And I think that people project onto me more confidence just because they don’t have as much and so they see it, and they think they’re judging their bloopers by my highlight reels, you know, when they see me on stage after I’ve rehearsed, you know, 400 times, they don’t know the dance that’s going on inside my head, which is like, what’s the next line? And I forgot that slide. And why is that guy in the third row staring at me? And why is that woman in the second row, not even paying attention, and all that that noise in the back of your head? That’s like, man, man, man, man, man, man, it’s just like the tape that goes on. But all they’re seeing is this bold person who’s up on stage trying really hard not to curse. And they’re thinking I could never do that. And the truth is, they can. I mean, I think the funniest thing is sometimes I get introduced, and people are like, she was a political appointee at the age of 22 years old at Bill Clinton’s White House. She started her own firm, she’s built political action committees and, and community service programs, and this and that, and the other and she’s run three marathons, and in the three marathons, that’s when everyone in the audience goes, ooooh! That’s the thing that they can’t do, and frankly, that’s the easiest part. But I mean, any of us can do it, right? We put one foot in front of the other, and for some of us, it will take three hours, and for some of us, it will take seven hours, but we can all go the distance. It took me five, right, I’m not a good runner. But yet people hear that and they had this vision of me gliding like a Kenyan Gazelle across, you know, all the way up Heartbreak Hill. And the reality is that I’m getting passed by people in double jogging strollers up the hills. So, you know, A, I don’t know that I’m all that confident. B, I would say that where the, the I think I’m audacious, right? I’m not confident, but I’m audacious. And I think where the audacity comes from, is not the confidence that I’m going to perform well, that I’m going to be perfect. But the confidence I have in myself that I’m going to slog it out, I am going to do the work, I’m going to show up every single day. And I may not win, but I’m going to outlast you. So, I had a friend who asked me in the beginning of the this book launch, she was like, it’s so amazing that you have the confidence to just get up there and and know that it’s going to work out. And I thought it was amazing because the truth is, I don’t have the confidence to get up there and know it’s going to work out. But I have the confidence that I know that I’m going to put the work in to at least be the very best version of myself, I have the confidence in my discipline.

Christine Schlonski [13:44]
Yeah, I love that distinction. And thank you so much for bringing so much fun to this conversation, for being so open. I think that’s what people really need to realize, we all have our insecurities. And at times, it just doesn’t seem like it from the outside. But you know, the inside conversation, the chatter in your head, the judging of yourself that will never ever go away. But you can train yourself maybe to ask better questions or to be nicer with yourself if something doesn’t work out. And then put the work in, like do as long as it takes until you get the results that you desire to. So I just love it.

Laura Gassner Otting [14:29]
Yeah, I think that’s so, it’s such a good distinction. I’m I, when I got off stage last week, I just previewed a new talk based around this book, and a friend of mine in the speaking world said how was it? And I said I give myself like an 85%. And he said you’re being too hard on yourself. And I said no, I’m, I’m actually not. Given how much I know right now in my level of ability right now, I think I did 85% of what I was capable of on stage today. And that means tomorrow, I’m able to go back and I’m able to be a little bit braver and take a few more chances because I know, I can do better. Like I know that if that was my very first time giving the speech and I’m giving myself an 85%, I probably have a 90%, 95% within me right now. I also know that when I look back on this talk three years from now, I’m gonna be like, oh, that was probably a 50% based on where I’ll be three years from now. But I do think that we have to be nicer to ourselves. I don’t, I try not to be hard on myself. But I tried to be realistic, and control what’s in my purview to control. You know, I can’t control how much I know about speaking right now, I can’t control how well I know how to move around the stage or the way I know how to wait for the joke to land. And then milk it for the second and third laugh and all those tricks that people who are far better speakers than I am know how to do. But I’m confident that if I put the work in, I’m going to get there. But I also know that I can’t expect an Olympic level performance when I’m really on the junior varsity.

Christine Schlonski [16:01]
I love that, and I would love for people to really get that point. So if you have, or need to just re-listen to this part, because I think that’s, that’s what it is. Sometimes we, we are in our own way, because we’re so hard on ourselves. Like, especially when it comes to selling and I found that for so many people, especially women, sales never really feels good. It has a taste of pushy or sleazy sometimes even unethical and you know, they prefer to run away or just give it all away. So that they don’t need to ask for, for money or to make an offer even. So, um, what, what I’m seeing over and over again, it’s a question of how confidently they show up, of how they believe in themselves, and also what kind of conversation they have. Like, where do they rate themselves and their ability to deliver, in their ability to grow? If you take it one step at a time, you can figure out each and every single thing.

Laura Gassner Otting [17:05]
I think I think that’s absolutely true. And I also think it’s a matter of ambition, right? Especially for women. Ambition is, ambition is one of my favorite words. And when I get on stage, I mount a feverish, passionate defense about the word ambition, because ambition has gotten a bad rap lately, right? It’s like, it’s a word that people don’t want to accept. But also if you’re a woman, oh, she’s so ambitious. Right? It’s like it’s not a word that people, that people embody fully and we tend to then subsume our ambitions to this more socially acceptable folk humility, right? Hashtag #humblebrag, which I think is ridiculous. So what I say to women who are nervous about selling, who are nervous about owning the room, who are nervous about asking for things, I say, why do you want to get ahead? What do you want to do with that power? What do you want to do with that money? Do you want to change your family? Change your community, change your country, change your world? Do you want to like make mark large or small on this earth? Like how do you want to how do you want to be on this planet? And what kind of life do you want to live? How do you want to raise your family? How do you want to give back all these questions and they think about who they want to be in this world, and then I asked them, would an elevated position and increased salary, a voice of leadership, a bigger platform, a bigger foundation, would it allow you to do more? Would it allow you to show up more for the causes that you care about and the people that you love? And of course, the answer is yes, right? And when they get that I’m like, good. So it’s not just your ambition to get there. It’s actually a responsibility.

Christine Schlonski [18:46]
Totally agree. Yes. Yeah, I believe…

Laura Gassner Otting [18:49]
That alleviates the burden.

Christine Schlonski [18:51]
Yeah, I believe we all have gifts that we do need to share with the world. And when we hold it back, we are doing not only ourselves at the service, but all the people we could have done something for, right?

Laura Gassner Otting [19:03]
Absolutely.

Christine Schlonski [19:04]
If you,

Christine Schlonski [19:05]
if you went into entrepreneurship, it is your duty to serve. And it’s your duty to ask for money so that you can create a lifestyle that you desire, because from there, it’s going to be a spark, it’s going to inspire other people.

Laura Gassner Otting [19:20]
Yeah, I mean, Seth Godin talks about this ideas theft, right? If you have gifts in this world, and you are not bringing them to bare for others, you’re stealing from them. And I love that because I do think we all have a responsibility to each other, and the communities in which we inhabit to uplift each other in the ways that we wonderfully, corporately, uniquely, our own way, are only able to do.

Christine Schlonski [19:46]
Yeah, I totally get it. I totally get it. And I so agree. So do you remember the very first thing you ever sold in your life?

Laura Gassner Otting [19:58]
Yes, my sister and I were in like, sixth grade, seventh grade. And we made these little Berets that had ribbons. You would weave the ribbons off the beret, and then they would hang down the bottom and they’d be a couple little beads, it was you know, 1970s chic. And they were adorable. And we would take special orders and we would make them with a specific color for people. They could pick the two colors, the ribbons, they could pick the colors of the beads, and we had a little business.

Christine Schlonski [20:28]
Wow, that’s really customized already.

Laura Gassner Otting [20:30]
It was really customized. They were adorable, and they were super easy to make. And I I don’t remember why we stopped doing it. I think, I don’t know algebra or something. What we really, but they were really cute. And I remember thinking just recently that, that business would take off now since so many 1980’s fashions are coming back.

Christine Schlonski [20:52]
Well, maybe an idea to think about!

Laura Gassner Otting [20:55]
I spent a lot of time on airplanes, I could probably make a lot of ribbon beaded, Barets.

Christine Schlonski [21:01]
Or you could teach somebody to sell it.

Laura Gassner Otting [21:03]
Or I could teach somebody, yeah, like my kids, they could start that business.

Christine Schlonski [21:08]
That would be a good business to be in. So was it, was it easy for you to, to ask for money when you sold those or?

Laura Gassner Otting [21:17]
No, it’s and it’s not even easy for me to ask for money now. It’s, i think, i think asking for money is, is really hard. I, so, I came into the, I came into the speaking world kind of by accident. I had sold my business to the team that helped me build it, and it was a professional services business where I had to ask for money a lot. And I did a TEDx and that TEDx got some attention, and that attention came with people calling me up and asking me to come keynote their conferences, and they were offering me money to do it. And I remember coming home from a certain conference and saying to my husband, I can’t believe somebody just paid me that much money for 45 minutes of work. And he said, no, in like a tone of voice that could only be described as mystified, he was like, no, they just paid you that much money for 25 years and 45 minutes of work. And that really for me was the first time I understood the difference between price and value. Right? So like price, is what it’s going to take for you to pay me for me to fly across the country and get on your stage. And value is everything that I have done in my career, the knowledge that I know, the networks that I have, the, the the ability to, to craft a story and to tell it on stage in a way that’s charismatic and compelling and captivating. That’s value. And that’s what they pay for. And so now, interestingly, I actually don’t have that much trouble asking for money. Because I understand that I’m asking for people to pay me my value, as opposed to just what’s the most I could get away with charging price?

Christine Schlonski [23:02]
Yeah, oh, I love that distinction. And it’s so so important, especially for all these coaches and therapists, these heart-centered, driven people, but still, and that’s something I discovered with my, with my clients as well like looking for that value, adding up all the hours you put in to craft that gift, to be able to give it in a way that people can receive it. And that really adds value to their lives.

Laura Gassner Otting [23:34]
Yes!

Christine Schlonski [23:35]
Thank you for going deeper in that, in that direction. I love to have the value and price comparison.

Laura Gassner Otting [23:42]
Well, I talked about this a lot in my book, because I talked about what is, you know, there the book talks about consonants, and how do we each find consonants in our lives. And consonants, as you know, it’s like alignment and flow, and this sort of frictionless feeling of belonging and momentum. And the only way to get that is to have this combination of finding your calling, having a connection to your work, having your work contribute to your life, your life in some way and having control over that. And the contribution piece, we like to think about, well, what’s my work contributing to the world? And I’m reframing that as, how is the work contributing to your life? Is it allowing you to manifest your values on a daily basis? Is it allowing you to live the lifestyle that you want with the flexibility that you want? Is it giving you the velocity and, and angle that you want for your career trajectory? But if, if your work is not contributing to the life that you want, it’s probably because you’re not charging enough money for what you do?

Christine Schlonski [24:39]
Yeah, and that’s so true for so many entrepreneurs. So this is like an invitation and also giving permission from both of us to really charge the value. And, as Bob Burg says, so beautifully in the Go-Giver, co-written with John David Mann, money is the echo of value. And I think once that has landed, it is really easier to ask for what you truly desire, and to get paid in the way that gives you the opportunity to live the life the way you dream of living it and to make it a reality.

Laura Gassner Otting [25:22]
Yeah, I think that if we wait around to get everything we deserve, will never get what we demand. And I think life is really short. And I’d rather get what I demand, I would rather have half as many clients that I’m charging twice as much money. I’ll make the same amount of money. And frankly, those clients are there because they see the value that I’m giving them. You know, I learned, I learned fairly late in running a professional services firm, that it was always those clients that nitpicked about fees before you sold them the project, they were always the ones that were not great clients, not because they were cheap. I mean, they were cheap, but that’s not why. It was because they actually, it wasn’t the, it wasn’t the amount of money that they were having trouble with, it was that they didn’t value who you were, they didn’t think you were worth it. And the ones that didn’t question the price, those are the ones that really bought into the fact that our firm was worth it, that we were a value and they appreciated us and listened to us and acted on our suggestions. And when they didn’t agree with us, would actually have a conversation as opposed to just blowing us off. And I learned pretty early, pretty early in the speaking business, and because I learned that business, that idea so late in the, in the executive search business, that as soon as somebody starts nitpicking and questioning my price, I say, you know, I’m probably not the right speaker for you, I can probably find you somebody who will speak at that price. Let me know, and then I can connect them with people who are lower level speakers. And usually, they call me up later, and they’re like, yeah, they weren’t as good as we were hoping! So well, you know, as my grandfather used to say, when you get you know, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I mean, that’s, that’s how it works. And I don’t feel like I need to race to the bottom and be all things to all people. There will be people for whom I am the right fit, and there will be people for whom I’m not, and that’s just going to be okay.

Christine Schlonski [27:07]
Yeah, I love it. I love it. What a beautiful ending of this episode. So where where can people find you?

Laura Gassner Otting [27:16]
Yes. So I’m on all the socials at HeyLGO, so H E Y L G O, I’m online at HeyLGO.com, and the book Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve your Own Path, and Live Your Best Life is available at amazon.com, Barnes and Nobles, anywhere good books are sold.

Christine Schlonski [27:34]
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I’m excited about our next interview that’s coming up. And thank you so much for this amazing conversation.

Laura Gassner Otting [27:44]
Thank you. It’s been great to be here.

Christine Schlonski [27:46]
I just love this interview. You know, all my guests are so open and they so share from their hearts. And I so appreciate that because this really shows us and inspires us what are the next steps we can take. So I really hope and pray that you are not married to your mother’s favorite candidate, and that you’re really carving your path. And to do that, often we have to ignore everybody else, so we can focus on our desires, because we are raised by somebody else’s standards. So figuring out what is true to us, what feels authentic, what are our values is not that easy. So I want to encourage you to take that path, check out Laura’s book Limitless, you have all the resources, the transcripts, the show notes, the key points at christineschlonski.com. When you arrive at the page, look for the tab Heart Sells! Podcast, and it’s just one click away. Make sure you connect with Laura, I have put all her social media links, so that you really can learn and dive in into her power energy, into her action taking and be inspired. If you also want to change more in your life, you can once on the page christineschlonski.com, also check out the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass, we are getting started this week, and 20 amazing experts will teach classes from the 15th of May till the 25th. So you are more than invited to check that out at christineschlonski.com, then check the tap masterclass, and yes, sign up because everybody delivers so much content, shares from their path, how they got to where they are today, what made the difference and they all teach one amazing piece of advice that will help you to get to spiritual and practical steps to increase your sales and create true wealth without losing your authenticity. So thank you so much for being here, check out the next episode with Laura because we got to go even deeper, and I’m so excited that she said yes to having a second episode. And yeah, thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day, wherever you are in this beautiful world. And bye for now.