Resources in this Episode:

Christine Schlonski [0:02]
Hi Gorgeous, this is episode number 069 with the amazing Anthony Iannarino, a true sales leader.

Anthony Iannarino [0:12]
Hi, this is Anthony Iannarino and you’re listening to the Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski. Enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:21]
I am so very excited you are here because today we kind of talked about your reason to sell because if you don’t have a reason if there is no reason to sell if you don’t improve the life of the other person you should not be selling. And once you realize that all your amazing products and services do sell. Well, that leaves a conclusion to put yourself out in a bigger way to get your message across and to provide as many people as you can to buy from you and to really enjoy your products and services. Today’s speaker Anthony Iannarino is an international speaker, author and amazing sales leader who publishes daily at www.thesalesblog.com. To help you to be more, do more, have more and contribute more. So come on, join our conversation. And I’m so proud and happy to also let you know that Anthony is one of the guest teachers at the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass where all the teachers are giving you spiritual and practical steps, how to increase your sales and create true wealth without losing your authenticity. So hop on over to christineschlonski.com find the top the Masterclass, the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass and just put yourself on to the guest list so you can join the classes. It is a free online event. And I’m so looking forward to provide you even more value. This Masterclass and the podcast so you can go out and give your gift to the world that you can shine bright. And as Anthony also says, “To be more, do more, have more and contribute more”. Thank you so much for being here and enjoy this episode. Hi Gorgeous, I am so super excited to have Anthony back on this show. Well, he’s going to be featured in the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass very, very soon. And today we’re going to dive into one of well, probably our favorite topics, it’s sales because correct me if I’m wrong, but we both believe that by selling you can change the world and can make it a better place. So can you give us a little bit of a background? Why do you enjoy sales so much?

Anthony Iannarino [3:06]
First hey, when you said, “Hi Gorgeous” are you talking to me? Or are you talking to the audience or both of us?

Christine Schlonski [3:12]
I was talking to both of you.

Anthony Iannarino [3:15]
That’s so nice of you. There’s no reason to sell if what you’re going to sell doesn’t improve the other person’s life in some way. And that is the heart and soul of selling it’s can you create value for other human beings? Can you give them something that they don’t have? And the way that I’ve always thought about this, Christine is that, you know, if the client could already get the outcome that they need without us, they’d already be getting that outcome, but they’re not getting that outcome. They’re struggling. And they’re missing information and insight. And they’re missing the right strategy, and they’re missing the right tactics. And they’re missing the product that we sell, or the service that we sell, or the outcomes that we can help them generate. So this is something that we do. And the way that I’ve written this a whole bunch of times, and the number of books is selling isn’t something that you’re doing to someone, it’s something that you’re doing for someone and with someone to benefit someone. And when you come at it from that angle, and you start to realize my job is to go help and serve people selling becomes a lot of fun. And you know, the thing that you and I have talked about before, is be more, do more, have more and contribute more? Well, how do you contribute more, you go and do things for other people that they can’t do without you. And I was a terrible salesperson when somebody first told me I had to be a salesperson, because I thought that I had to do things to people. But then when I was succeeding, and when I went back to what was working for me, all I was ever trying to do is help people with their big problems. And if you can help people with those problems, it’s a much easier and a much more fun and a much more meaningful endeavor.

Christine Schlonski [4:57]
Yeah, I totally agree. And you have a wonderful blog, that’s called thesalesblog.com, where you provide amazing content for people to get support with their sales mindset, with strategies, where you just share lots of your knowledge. And I find that amazing, because, you know, when people actually sell more in their businesses, when they add more to the bottom line, they get actually to create the life of their dreams, like what they truly desire. And by doing so by being more fulfilled, then because now they can do what they desire. They can be like I would say even better human beings, and influence those people around them.

Anthony Iannarino [5:45]
When you think about what human life is about, and there’s research to support what I’m about to say, right now, there’s a lot of people that think that the right goal is for people to have happiness, but we know that happiness is actually an outcome. And it’s not something that you can just say, Okay, I’m going to be happy. The thing that makes you happy is progress. And so you have to be progressing, you have to be coming closer to your goals, you have to get closer to having what you want. But we know what makes people unhappy. And it’s a lack of progress. And it is a lack of having enough to feel confident and not have the fear of always having scarcity. And we know that when you can go and help people find a way to get enough of a view that there is abundance in the world, and that there is enough for everyone, and they can find a way to have the things that they want. And so you and I’ve been talking, this is a second time, but you know, the “be more, do more than have more”. So you have to work on you, you have to do things that create value for other people, then you get to have more than the certainty that you have abundance and that you can go out and contribute to that progress for people, lets them do things that even give them greater certainty that the future is going to be better than whatever’s going on right now in their life. But I think it’s an important concept for people when they want what they want and they know. And most people don’t know, they haven’t done the work to say what do I really want? What do I want my life to look like? What do I want to have? What do I want to contribute? Once you get clarity on that you start moving towards it to happiness. It then comes because you’re making progress towards what it is that you really want.

Christine Schlonski [7:28]
Yeah, this is so true. And you know, you can experience that every single day in your life. If things are not working because you feel stuck, or if things are not moving. You know, I do get upset sometimes or frustrated until I move forward and create the desired outcome, which then helps me to get back to the confidence and with that confidence, you can just serve better. So you seem very confident, is that something that you’ve been all your life? Or was it like a process?

Anthony Iannarino [8:09]
I was fearful when I was very young. And at some point that broke for me probably when I was maybe 13 in that neighborhood and I started working. And then from 13 forward, I’ve been very confident. I’m confident and then I have greater confidence than I had skill at the beginning. And if you have to err on the side of being overconfident or underconfident, be overconfident. Even when you make mistakes, and even when you fail, the learning outcome is what propels you forward anyway. So failing is part of the learning process. It’s not an identity, it’s just part of the learning process. And you don’t make progress unless you fail. And the person who fails more ends up learning more and ends up becoming a master. You know, and I’m…when you were talking about that I was thinking about many years ago, I was practicing a Japanese martial art called Aikido, which I don’t practice anymore because it’s really, really tough on your knees. And I was starting to have enough pain that I decided not to do it anymore, but I went in. And it’s a very subtle martial art with very difficult moves that are very unnatural. And somebody comes to strike you and you step into them instead of away from them and you don’t try to block it, you actually move into them and use their energy against them. I was on a mat for six months. And I only worked out with black belts, I only worked out with the highest ranking people. And I felt like I was making no progress. And I took my first test and I passed my first test. And then I was getting ready for the second test. It was a year I’ve been on the map, you know, maybe five times a week, for three hours, I was putting a lot of time into this. And about a year in, the sensei they decided to advertise the services to build a new class. And then all the new people came then and it wasn’t until the new people came in that I realized like oh my gosh, they’re horrible at this. They’re hurting me, they’re hurting themselves because they don’t know how to do this. It was only when I could see that, that I was on the plateau for a year. And it felt like I was on the plateau and I wasn’t making any progress. But then once I had the context of where did I come from, I realized I made massive progress over the course of that year. And a lot of people thought I was a black belt because I felt like the black belts in the same room because I only worked out with them. And I’d made tremendous progress. But you’re on the plateau, you have to just keep working all the time, even when it doesn’t feel like you’re making progress. And even when you fail. And even when you think I didn’t get that outcome and I didn’t get what I wanted, you’re still making progress. And you just have to have enough patience and enough persistence to stay the course, keep doing the work, don’t give up. Just live with the struggle, live on the plateau for as long as you have to. And then you’ll have a breakthrough.

Christine Schlonski [10:58]
Yeah, I love that. But when I listened to you, I thought how I used to sell in the corporate world. And you know, when you start out, I was so super serious because it was high ticket sales. And for me, that was like a lot of money asked for it. So there was always this respect. And my view of business was that business is something serious. So you don’t really enjoy it, you’re super serious. So I didn’t laugh on the phone. I was like, I don’t even know probably super boring. And not, you’re not fun to talk to at all. But then as you mentioned in your story, you know, by practicing and by cold calling again and again and again. Then when the new people came in, and when I started to manage teams and train them, you know, they were looking at me like, you know, I was some Wonder Woman saying something totally amazing. And I didn’t even realize the progress I made, because you know, when you don’t have that feedback it’s really interesting because you can’t really measure or see how far you’ve come. So beautiful story. What advice….

Anthony Iannarino [12:12]
I’m trying to imagine you being serious and not smiling. Because you know, I’ve spent a couple hours with you and you’re never not smiling.

Christine Schlonski [12:21]
Yeah, I did a lot myself to be more me.

Anthony Iannarino [12:24]
Yeah, how? I mean, what were you like when you were trying to be serious?

Christine Schlonski [12:29]
Like I didn’t know, I was so serious. I can’t, I mean I can’t even go there anymore.

Anthony Iannarino [12:35]
Yeah, I can see that about you.

Christine Schlonski [12:38]
Yeah, it was such an interesting journey. And, you know, the moment when I did allow myself to, you know, to relax a little bit more and to have more fun and to laugh on the phone. I remember, we had one colleague, and she was always laughing. And I thought like, how unprofessional? Well, interestingly, she made more sales. So that got my attention. And, yeah, it took me a while when I started, I made a decision, I was like, I’m gonna laugh on foreign language, each client, I will have at least one laugh. So at the beginning, I had to force myself. But then it became natural, like really having fun and enjoying the communication, which now, you know, it’s my new normal.

Anthony Iannarino [13:26]
You had to liberate yourself from the idea that business is this buttoned up, you know, place where you can’t actually be a human being and be yourself.

Christine Schlonski [13:37]
Yeah, I totally had to.

Anthony Iannarino [13:39]
That process of liberation, those what frees you up to actually do good work is that you just have to liberate yourself and be the best version of you. And, and not put these artificial ideas and barriers around your personality that prevents people from connecting with you.

Christine Schlonski [13:55]
Totally agree. Yeah, luckily, that’s like 13 years ago, or even a bit longer.

Anthony Iannarino [14:00]
I just like how I turned this whole podcast around. And I’m now talking about you.

Christine Schlonski [14:05]
Yeah, well, I’m trying to get you back on the past. But I lost this conversation because I think so many people have an idea of what business is for them, and then obviously be projected on to other people. And clients do enjoy having fun, right? They want to buy from people who they trust, who they love, who they enjoy, you know, they don’t want this button-up person. And when I then went into business for myself, you know, I could even like drop the suits, and you know, all the professional, serious stuff that you have to or that I had to wear my job. So now I can choose, which is really nice. And I don’t need to sit behind the phone, like in a suit where nobody sees me, and act like super professional. So that’s pretty cool.

Anthony Iannarino [15:02]
That’s very cool.

Christine Schlonski [15:03]
Yeah, and I would love to give people this, you know, this opportunity to think about that they create their life and their business, that they make the rules of their own sales game. And they can have so much more fun and make it easy. When was it that you found out that you know, sales is something that you don’t make people do, but that you invite people into?

Anthony Iannarino [15:34]
I didn’t know that’s what I was doing. I mean, I didn’t know I started doing that when I was probably 19 years old. And I was working in my family business and I was told to call and see if you could help people. And I didn’t know I was a salesperson I didn’t know I was selling, I was told to call and see if you can help people. So everything I did was trying to get a meeting so I could have a conversation about helping people. And it was only when somebody’s made me a salesperson that I shifted gears and became serious and started trying to do things instead of just trying to figure out where do they need help and how can I have that conversation with them. And when I went back to that, my success, you know, continued and I look, I’ve read every book on sales. I mean, for decades now, I’ve been reading every book on sales, on marketing, on business, I read a lot. But the truth of the matter is, selling is an other-oriented endeavor. You know, it’s not about you, it’s about the other person, and the more you can focus on the other person and help them the better. And when you do what I do, when people have a difficult challenge, a difficult problem being funny having some levity, you know, making it something that’s not unbearable. And in showing that, look, this is a problem but it’s a solvable problem and other people have solved the problem, and we’re going to find a way to do it. It’s just a better way to be overall. And I think that some of us just have this personality, and a lot of people are probably where you were 13 years ago, thinking this is a serious thing. Well, it is a serious thing, but it’s not that serious of a thing. We’re still human beings and human beings have communicated a certain way. And if you were to look at a scientist by the name of Robin, Robin Dunbar, Dunbar would tell you that you’re capable of maintaining about 150 relationships in your life. And it’s because we’re still like a primate we share 97.8% of the DNA with the chimpanzees who are like a little bit different and a lot of that is our consciousness. But Dunbar’s research shows that we think that the reason that laughter is, is part of the way that we communicate is that as we evolved, it was a way to connect with people. And when you’re in a room with four or five people, and you can get four or five people to laugh, then you are doing this social grooming, this connecting, that’s necessary for our species to survive and thrive. And laughter is really, really powerful. So if you can be humble, if you can be funny, if you can be engaging, if you can be charming these are things that evolved to help human beings find a way to cooperate, because we’re social animals. I mean, nobody lives by themselves. And can you imagine how hard it would be to be a person by yourself and you have to figure out how to cut down enough trees to build a house and drag it to whatever place you’re going to build that house and go get water? You know, just something as simple as how do you go get water, all of this stuff that we take for granted? Is human beings being able to get together, communicate and help each other solve problems? That’s what we do. That’s what we do as a species. So how far away is sales from that? I mean, how far away is it from helping other people get things done so that things move forward? That’s what we do. And you’re a human. So laugh, smile, like Christine you can’t see Christine but she’s always smiling. She’s always smiling her eyes smile, she’s smiling. You can have fun and play with this. And I will tell you, and I think your experiences are the same as mine. The more you do that, the better you perform, and the more people that you help, and the better the results for you and for them. No downside here.

Christine Schlonski [19:26]
Yeah, well, people buy into your energy. So if you see that you are happy that you are happy person that you created a life that you really love, they want some. They you know, if they don’t have it, they want that. They feel attracted to it. So I think especially for the service-based products as well, if we have the solution, if we really can support that person, then it makes all the difference. That they also see how we enjoy ourselves, how we enjoy business. And just how I always say going from a sales conversation to a fun conversation because the sale is just it’s kind of the add-on. Right? You have a communication where you get to know the person first where you see, can you support them? Yes or no. And I even go to the point especially for one on one coaching, where we talk about soulmate clients, right? In that, if I would not want the person for dinner in my home, I don’t think I would want to work with them one on one where I spend like so much time with them. And I think that makes a big, big difference.

Anthony Iannarino [20:42]
Fit matters a lot. Yeah, that’s a good fit. You made me think of something, I’m going to write it for my newsletter, and I’m going to tell you what it was. It’s so good. You said something it sparked something in me. You’ll see it tomorrow in the newsletter.

Christine Schlonski [20:55]
Wow, I will check your newsletter. Awesome. So talking about our the you know, happiness and confidence and selling this ease, it says something that you are afraid of.

Anthony Iannarino [21:09]
Not anymore. I’m through all my fears. I have two Zen masters that I’ve studied with in the last couple of years. And one of them his name is Darshan Roshi, and he’s in Denver, Colorado, he comes over to your part of the world quite a bit, though, because the Denmark and other places where he has big, big groups of people come in and work with him. But I work with them one on one. And at one point, he said, What are you afraid of? And I said, dying? And he’s like, you don’t really mess around at all, do you? Like you get right to the point. And I’m like, well, other than that, you know, everything else is, I mean, you can recover from right? You can recover from everything, except that that’s very permanent. And so I’ve spent some time thinking about that. And I spent some time in meditation because I’m a meditator. And I’m now through that fear. I’m not looking forward to not being here anymore. But I’ve done the math and so far 108 billion people have lived on this planet, and 100.15 billion have died. So I feel like I have at least a 95% chance of dying at some point. And, and I’m going to work the odds in my favor if I can. But the truth of the matter is, it’s part of this thing when you’re born, I mean, being born is a death sentence. You know that that’s what comes at the end, it’s come at the end for, for so far, over 100 billion people, we think I mean, that’s our best estimate. So I’m no longer afraid, because everything, I mean, you can recover wherever you are, right now, if you’re not where you want to be, if you had an event, I mean, if you had circumstances, there are people who have had that same event, or who have had that same circumstance in their life, who are in a different place. And so everything here, you know, you can come back from almost anything, regardless of what it is. And you can find a way to create value for other people into to make progress and to be happy and to serve others. So I’m not really afraid.

Christine Schlonski [23:17]
Yeah, that that sounds good. Um, so if somebody would be afraid, afraid of selling, afraid of having the conversation where they might get a “no” at the end? What is the best advice you could give them?

Anthony Iannarino [23:36]
I’m not going to answer you. I caught you smiling at me. I know. I was just trying to tell you “no”, then just to make sure that everybody knows you survived that “no” didn’t you?

Christine Schlonski [23:47]
Yeah, I did.

Anthony Iannarino [23:48]
Yeah. And you done that and you’re still a whole human being right? Feel pretty good? Okay, good. That’s true for everybody. Here’s what I’ll tell you about fear. I wrote a book called “The Lost Art of Closing”. And it’s about gaining commitments. And in chapter 15, which my publisher tried to cut out of the book, the title of the chapter is called “Fearing the Wrong Danger”. And we fear the wrong danger. So we fear that by asking we could get a no. But the real fear that you should have is the not asking and not helping some person get some result that they need that they can’t get without you, the real fear is something else. The fear that you’re being rejected, is wholly unfounded. It is not, you are not personally being rejected. No one’s rejecting you and saying Christine, I would do business with anyone before I would do business with you. You’re a horrible human being. And I never want to hear from you again. Has that ever happened to you?

Christine Schlonski [24:44]
Ah, well, not in this way. But people have slept the phone before.

Anthony Iannarino [24:48]
But that’s not about you. That’s about them.

Christine Schlonski [24:50]
Yeah, that’s true.

Anthony Iannarino [24:52]
That has nothing to do with you, that has to do with the fact that they have low blood sugar. They have a kid that is in trouble at school, they have a lot of pressure from their boss right now. Their husband or wife is mad at them and they’re having a domestic dispute. It has nothing at all to do with you. They were grouchy before you showed up. And you have to know that, yeah, you didn’t make them grouchy, they were already grouchy. So you can’t be afraid of a “no”, and you can’t be afraid of somebody hanging up on you. And if they hang up on you, you just call them right back. And you say, Listen, I caught you at a bad time and I apologize and I want you to know that in the future, if you ever need somebody to talk to about whatever’s going on, I’m happy to listen, I’m here to serve you. And you just don’t be afraid of anything. Nobody has ever this, I’m certain of this because I keep asking I’ve done what we would call field research. No one has ever had made a cold call, and then had a person hang up on them, and then get in their car and drive over and beat that person up for calling them that’s just never happened. I mean, the worst thing that they do is hang up the phone. There’s no harm that can come to you. And all you have to say to yourself when that happens is they have low blood sugar, I know they have low blood sugar, they need a glass of orange juice or something because they’re in a bad state right now. And I need to help them. But it has nothing to do with us. Your job is to say what’s the real danger, the real danger and not calling is that you’re not serving other people. You’re not helping them, you have the ability to create value for them but you’re not. The real danger is not in somebody saying no to an offer. The real danger is not showing them the future that’s available to them and helping them get to that future. We fear the wrong danger all the time. The real danger is in not taking action. And I wrote this last week, I don’t know where I put it, I might have just got it on Twitter, whenever I’ve been faced with the decision to either act, or wait, I’ve always chosen to act. Now it doesn’t mean that it always worked. But even when it didn’t work, I was happier taking action than passively waiting and not taking action on my behalf and on my client’s behalf. So you should not fear those kinds of things. You should fear what you actually should fear, which is I’m not doing what I should be doing, I’m not creating the value I can create for other people. I’m not engaged in this in the way that I need to be. That’s your real fear.

Christine Schlonski [27:19]
Yeah, I totally agree. I always finish my blocks was stop just dreaming act now. Because you need to take action, you need to have a vision, but you also need to take action. So awesome. What a wonderful finish of this first episode. Thank you so so much. I really appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge with us. And people can find you at thesalesblog.com. I highly recommend it especially now where you just made a note about something you’re going to write from this conversation.

Anthony Iannarino [27:55]
Yes.

Christine Schlonski [27:55]
Check that out. Thank you so much, and have a wonderful day.

Anthony Iannarino [27:59]
Thank you for being my muse today.

Christine Schlonski [28:02]
Thank you. So Gorgeous, I hope you had as much fun as I had. You learned definitely a lot of cool things and one of them is just smiling because if you put a smile on you have more of a fun conversation. You have more lightness in the conversations. And most of all, you can enjoy the process so much more. So I hope you had a great time. And you will have already signed into the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass where all the amazing guests speakers, including Anthony, are teaching spiritual and practical steps how to increase your sales and create true wealth without losing your authenticity. I hope I see you on the other side at the Masterclass and tune in for the next podcast episode. This Anthony, I can promise you one thing, it is going to be amazing. Thank you so much for being here. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in this beautiful world. And I’m saying bye for now with a big smile. Thank you so much.