Christine Schlonski [0:03]
Hi, Gorgeous, this is episode number 030.

Dana Pharant [0:07]
This is Dana Pharant and you’re listening to Heart Sells! Podcast with Christine Schlonski, enjoy.

Christine Schlonski [0:14]
Hi Dana. I am so happy you are here. Welcome to Heart Sells! Podcast.

Dana Pharant [0:19]
Thank you so much. It is a delight to get to spend more time with you.

Christine Schlonski [0:23]
Yeah, it was wonderful. So for people who don’t know you yet, you were also part of the Sales Mentality Makeover Masterclass. And I’m going to make sure to also drop a link on the website where you find all the show notes, the transcript, all the amazing links to get to these resources, especially to Dana’s book you can find that also at innerdominatrix.com, were you get a free chapter. Because Dana is all about authentic, inner power and confidence. And I just love this topic. So and you know, you are about confidence and when people meet you when I met you the first time you seem super, super confident. Has this always been this way?

Dana Pharant [1:16]
I wish. No, like so many people, you know, when we learn something it’s usually because there was such a strong need to have that. I would say that I was the typical doormat personality growing up, I was the introvert, I wouldn’t say anything, I spent a lot of time just, I would try to be, you know, unseen in the room, you know, find that corner and just be quiet and observe everything. So no confidence was something that was this hard for me, it was hard for me to be seen, it was hard for me to get my voice out. You know, if there was more than three people talking you know, in a room I rarely said anything. Yet I was so quiet which, you know, for people who have met me recently they just are fairly, like, you can’t imagine that because I take up a lot of their time now. I think I’m making up for lost time. But you know, for me the shift was learning to become a dominatrix was really the piece where I learned to stand in that authentic confidence, be quickly and easily. Because I had to like it had to be I had to stand confidently for people because that’s part of the persona that needs to be there. But it can’t, you can’t fake it. You have to own it. So I really had to step into this. And I know for a lot of people, like, you know, the whole dominatrix thing is it you know, it conjures up images of some who’s very harsh and very stern. And, you know, and then there’s the whole sexual things, some people their brains to just, you know, off in the direction. But when we come around to the, the energy and the essence of it for me, that training was so valuable for my business, because it gave me the skills that I needed to do, you know, sales conversations and ask for what I needed and, you know, get on be a speaker, get on podcasts, all these things that you need to do I learned from that.

Christine Schlonski [3:17]
Yeah, awesome. So people might be surprised, like, Whoa, what a special guest today. I just want to, you know, give some background. So not everybody, obviously, who is an entrepreneur has ever put that together with you know, the, how do you even say the job or …

Dana Pharant [3:44]
It could be a job or hobby. So, people, it’s a side gig.

Christine Schlonski [3:47]
Yeah, so of being a dominatrix. So can you give maybe some advice because some people are very introvert, but they have this beautiful gift they want to give it to the world. They have some need to communicate by don’t really know how. So what is maybe one or two of the valuable things that you learned by becoming a dominatrix that they could learn from you without going through the whole process?

Dana Pharant [4:20]
Yeah, I know, not everybody wants to go to the dungeon, that’s ..I am not sure why? But no. I think you know, the places to start is one is, is really looking at what is your internal judgments of yourself, what are you? How are you talking to yourself? How are you comparing yourself to other people? And really, what we have to do is, we have to get into this place where it’s okay, that other people have opinions of us, it’s okay, that they have these judgments of who we are, and what we do, and how we show up. And, and that’s a that’s a process, it’s not like, Oh, I’m just, I’m going to change how I think, right? That that willpower, you know, trying to override up willpower is actually useless. And my analogy that I give people is that you know, remember from grade six science class, you take your magnets, you have your two magnets, and if you try to take the two South Poles or the two North North Pole, and you try to shove them together, no matter how hard you push, they will always repel one another. And this is the analogy that I use for people. It’s like when you’re trying to change something by brute force by just will powering through it telling yourself, I’ll just we’ll just stop thinking that just don’t don’t think of the yellow ball bouncing note to don’t don’t think of that yellow ball bouncing, don’t think about that doesn’t work, right? Because the only thing you’re thinking of is the yellow ball bouncing. So the more that you tell yourself not to do it, the less, you’re actually going to get there. So we need to use the tools actually remove, remove those automatic responses from our system and start moving that out. So I would say the very first thing is to just make some space in your universe that it’s possible to change it, that it’s possible for you to be confident at some point in the future. I think that’s probably the starting place. And then, of course, there’s lots of tools that we get into for actually changing on a dynamic deep level the programming so that it becomes effortless to show confident.

Christine Schlonski [6:30]
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s a big shift, then from being like an introvert, as you just described, not saying anything, you know, just kind of blending in, to actually dominate that, I can’t even see a bigger shift than, than that. So where people can start is to be aware of their self-talk, and then really observe how they talk to themselves and make a conscious decision, if the self-talk is not good to change it. And to have that conversation not: Well, I am confident, I am confident, I’m confident and they are not there shaking. But it’s like, I can see myself to be confident, I can be more confident each and every day.

Dana Pharant [7:22]
And you know, and then that brings up a really great point, because the language that you’ve just brought in, there is a little bit more towards the affirmation style, which to me is, is the slow route. So because every time you say it as an affirmation of like, I am more and more confident every day, every day in every way, I’m getting better and better, right? Yes, that eventually works. But you have to say that so many times to start making micro changes. Because what happens is that this is the neural chemistry piece. When you say something that isn’t true, your brain will automatically rebut that and it will refute it say, well, well, no. So if you’re saying, you know, I’m a confident person, then your brain is getting in there and going well, no, because you didn’t do this. And you didn’t do that you didn’t speak up here, and you’re not doing this, or, you know, and you’re right. So you have all this evidence that keeps getting thrown at you. And then all of the emotion kicks in, and you start to feel bad about where you are not measuring up. So this is where I just wanted to explain that piece about because I don’t like affirmations. They’re very ineffective. But if we flip it on its head, and this would be another really easy tool for people, you flip that affirmation around, and you start to utilize the fact that your brain will, you know, look for evidence, we do it as a why question. Okay. And you take that, you know, piece of being confident. And you turn that around to saying, I wonder why it’s so easy for me to be more confident every day, right? And then there’s no resistance to that. Because it’s not right. It’s not a clear statement. It’s not like, this is who I am. So your brain goes, No, no. And the more you start playing with those kinds of questions, and use, like, energetically, leave it open, I wonder why it’s so easy, right? And use I wonder, and then your brain over time starts accumulating evidence to support that. Now you’re training your brain to look for where you are confident. And then we know that from neuroscience that, you know, the brain, you know, builds on itself. And when we start seeing things, evidence of being confident, then it’s easier to step into being more confident, which brings more evidence, which brings more confidence, right. So it’s a, it’s a nice way, you know, DIY to start building it, it will take some time, but it starts to shift it in that direction that you want to go instead of, you know, the constant rebuttal and fighting that you get when you do affirmations.

Christine Schlonski [10:01]
Yeah. Or that’s beautifully explained. I do love affirmations, I have to say, but I’m just how you brought light of with the Why question that’s awesome. Thank you. I could really feel like having my internal dialogue, while you spoke and kind of trying on that, why opportunity did shift the energy and we are all curious, right? We are, we are entrepreneurs. So we want to know, like, what works, what doesn’t work? How can I be of better service? And, and the Why is such a big question. So that keeps you open that keeps you motivated and it keeps your brain searching for evidence, which I think is a brilliant piece to make the journey so much easier for you.

Dana Pharant [10:51]
Yeah, it’s a nice hack. And it really, you know, upload will affirmation, you know, 10.0, we just take a huge jump in the effectiveness

Christine Schlonski [11:04]
Yeah, so, we already seen or, or understood like, your big shift in confidence. Do you remember the very first thing in your life you’ve ever sold?

Dana Pharant [11:20]
Oh, my goodness. I mean, I’ve been self-employed forever. So what was the first thing, you know, probably tend to pull in the, you know, the catchphrase, I had to sell myself because being self employed, I had to set up a, you know, a situation where I would go where I’d be working, so I had to pitch myself, which is not uncommon to most people with getting a job, but a little bit different in that, you know, there were a number of people applying for this great opportunity in a beautiful medical building. And of course, so this is back in the days when I was a massage therapist, just graduated beautiful medical building, you know, even with a chiropractor and a few other massage therapists who were fully booked and had spillover. So it was it was a great opportunity. And, and I had to go in and convince them why I would be the best fit. And, you know, I didn’t do really make that connection until you just brought that out. What was the first thing I sold them? Like, you know, that’s, that’s probably the first thing

Christine Schlonski [12:24]
so no, no cookies in school or something?

Dana Pharant [12:29]
Um, well, you know, I, I grew up in a highly religious household that was really mild called is there we weren’t partaking in any of that. So now, well, actually, yeah, I guess you could say that was the first thing I sold was, you know, the religion I, you know, from age eight on I was pushing that, even though I didn’t believe in it. I wasn’t a good salesperson. But

Christine Schlonski [12:53]
yeah, well, then, let’s focus on how you sold yourself to getting that space in that medical building. Yeah,

Dana Pharant [13:01]
that’s it. That’s a better example. So.

Christine Schlonski [13:04]
So that was the first the first thing and obviously you succeeded, otherwise, it wouldn’t be a story now.

Dana Pharant [13:12]
Yeah, I failed miserably. It was awful.

Christine Schlonski [13:16]
Yeah. How? How did it make you feel to kind of ask for the sale?

Dana Pharant [13:22]
It was that definitely, I was still in the space of being much more of a doormat, but I felt great. I felt great to get it. The asking was nerve-racking. And at the same time, it was interesting in that, you know, I felt a bit of confidence in my hands on skills. So I really leaned into that the business side of it was all new. And, and then, you know, it’s interesting, because I think back I’m like, Yeah, I wanted it really badly. But I didn’t get hung up on if I didn’t. Because there were other places to work. So I had a bit of a detachment from it. And still excited. I was excited to even just apply.

Christine Schlonski [14:11]
Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, I did an episode like, on Fridays, variety Friday, where I, where I share some of my sales knowledge, or great resources or I answer questions. And I had an episode talking about the goal and the outcome. So what you just said, letting go of the outcome, but not have the goal. Some people let go of the goal, right? By letting go of the outcome also means if the client says, No, with a weak excuse I just walk away,

Dana Pharant [14:44]
Right.

Christine Schlonski [14:45]
which should not be done, because we want to serve the person. And we want to make sure that we did everything in our power to empower them to say yes, to themselves.

Dana Pharant [14:56]
Absolutely.

Christine Schlonski [14:57]
So it’s always good to have other options because that means you’re kind of independent and flexible and probably more creative if you’re more open and in flow than when you stuck with this one idea has to work. So,

Dana Pharant [15:12]
Absolutely, you know, when we let go of attachment, and I know you and I are aligned on this idea that you know when we have that expectation that things can work out in our favor. And so we’re not attached to it has to be this particular like this one tiny little thing, then, you know, creatively, you can look beyond it, you start looking for other things, when when you’re not focused on it. It has to be exactly like this, then you can like, Okay, so here’s my goal. What else might fit that target? How else can I get it? And then, you know, the creative ideas can come in through that way. I love it.

Christine Schlonski [15:55]
Yeah. And I think it’s so important, especially for entrepreneurs, right? Because you have to be creative in times, like very creative, make sure that you know, your business grows, and and you know, that you evolve that you grow yourself. I mean, you can’t just ask your clients for a long time. So I assume that Well, no, I shouldn’t assume I should just ask you. Do you believe there is such a thing like a natural salesperson?

Dana Pharant [16:34]
I have yet to see it. I think everybody that I’ve met, maybe there is, but I have yet to meet somebody who is a natural salesperson first. I think there are people that end up looking like they’re a natural salesperson. And, and yet, it’s still by learning, whether it is accidental learning, you know, you meet those people who just kind of follow into, they want to serve, they want to help people, and they have a drive to feel the rush of the sale. And so you get that blending. And I think that to me, is that natural salesperson, right? A person who is has very little attachment to how the outcome shows up, but drives for the outcome to show up. That piece. Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [17:27]
yeah. And they, they can feel when you know, when the moment of Yes comes.

Dana Pharant [17:33]
Mm hmm.

Christine Schlonski [17:34]
Right. They can feel and lean into the sales situation.

Dana Pharant [17:40]
Yeah,

Christine Schlonski [17:41]
yeah. Yeah. I always love this question. Because I want to motivate people to really go and learn those sales skills. Because so far nobody I’ve interviewed has known a natural born salesperson. But you know that that people that are natural born salespeople.

Dana Pharant [18:05]
Although if you look at kids, a lot of kids are natural salespeople. Like I have seen some kids. I remember hearing this story. So this little boy and he’s like, Mommy, you’re so pretty. I just love being around you. Like, just butter her right up. And then it was this smooth little transition over into I think you would like to buy me an ice cream.

Christine Schlonski [18:33]
I love the story.

Dana Pharant [18:37]
That’s a natural salesperson.

Christine Schlonski [18:39]
Yeah, yeah. Well, if he is still this way when he has grown up that definitely if he has not lost those skills. And there are different ways to get to that outcome. Right. And other just fall to the floor and cried and scream. I’d like the charming one, though. So um, when people step into that confidence, and to that zone that you would you say that you can feel it with your whole body?

Dana Pharant [19:16]
Yeah, I would say to me, authentic confidence. Like, if I really tuned into it, it’s a quiet feeling. Because so many people tend to associate confidence with this big puffing of the chest. And it’s this outward, projected, you know, kind of energy. But to me, confidence is, is very quiet. And it sits kind of, like, at the, you know, the base of the heart and down into the solar plexus and even in the belly. Is this quiet power that exudes out from within, but it doesn’t steamroll anybody, it just kind of comes in and washes over people.

Christine Schlonski [20:00]
Yeah. Oh, so good. I’ve never heard it this way. But that is, I feel it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And I’m quite sure, so for the listeners, so if you wanna to be more confident, just take a minute and tune in. Tune into that space: heart, solar plexus, belly, this area, just have a deep breath and, and listen, what your body is telling you. When you talk about something that you know, that you get excited about, that you believe in, then I think this evolves naturally. And it’s often in the situations because what I have noticed with a lot of my clients when you talk to them, they’re super excited about there gifts about what they do, and you buy right into the idea that they are, you know, the person to go to. But when it comes to making an offer, it’s like, the fear or anxiety or whatever is like sweeping and at the same time, kind of pushing that confidence away. And they change energy, they become like a different person. And they have different states of being a little bit like weird to like, really strange which kind of destroys the deal. And as you know, it’s really heartbreaking to see because then if they don’t sell something, they don’t get the confirmation, they don’t get their business to thrive. Do you have any advice of what people can do? Because they know this moment is going to come where they have to make an invitation or an offer? How did you deal with it?

Dana Pharant [21:47]
Yeah, so one, I will reiterate that it’s like that deeper work needs to be done to clear out the self-judgments and you know, those programs that get running in our system about what sales is and what it you know, all of those things. But I think for now, to focus on dropping back into your heart that right and this is the whole thing of your podcast, you have to drop back into your heart and to think about, okay, how can I love this person? How can I serve this person? And, you know, where can I make this offer out of the love and compassion that I have for them. And I think when you, when you start shifting it back into the heart because I think where people get wonky, is that they’re, you know, they’re so passionate about what they’re doing, and they’re talking and it’s like, so much heart energy, so much love, right, all of that passion and the passion from the lower chakras as well. And that’s all coming through and they’re just exuding all this this wonderful juiciness to their client or potential client, the client like, Oh, this feels great. I love this person. And all of a sudden they just shut all that off, back into their head and then and then they’re like, you know, from eyeballs up and all of a sudden you’re like, Where did they go right? What happened to my love like I don’t feel so loved anymore, but I feel like you know someone just crapped on me and, and, of course, you’re going to get a no at that point, because you see the extreme of having loved up on them, and then suddenly switching gates and it’s just cerebral and it’s like, whoa. So if you can drop back down into you know who you are, and how you show up when you’re just serving them in the beginning. And serving doesn’t mean giving all of your tools away, serving them in the you know, finding out more about them going through that sales conversation. Stay in that state when you make your offer. And it’s practice.

Christine Schlonski [23:45]
Yeah, yeah. Oh, beautiful. Obviously, I love it.

Dana Pharant [23:50]
It’s right and what you do.

Christine Schlonski [23:51]
I know it’s so it’s so great to have, I love just love these conversations. And I’m so excited that you are going to be back for another interview and where we can dive in deeper. I’d love to go into that energy stuff. Now, stay tuned Gorgeous. Make sure you check out the next episode with Dana Pharant and check out her book innerdominatrix.com you get a free chapter on her page. So really make sure you have a look and learn all of that juicy stuff. While in case you might not be confident all the time. I hope you really learned something from this interview because there is a space where you can tune into that confidence where you can change as Dana mentioned going from doormat to actually dominatrix is a huge step. Tune in for the next interview because we will talk about sales and how you can make your prospects feel like coming to the most exclusive party there is. I’m sure you will enjoy it. So tune in. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast that you get the notifications and you find all the show notes, the resources the transcript, also the link to Dana and the Masterclass where she spoke before on christineschlonski.com. Have fun. Have a wonderful day wherever you are in the world. And bye for now.